Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Next on my to-do list is to look at adjusting the 'B' screw. I know nothing about adjusting the derailleur, so a link to a good video would be helpful.
Source of 48t steel chain ring
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Deacon Blues
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lsthrz, I'll have a look that the Simano manual. Thanks.
Which 8000 model do we have?
Which 8000 model do we have?
Deacon Blues
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thanks
bexamous
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FWIW I installed Garbaruk cage, it helps.. I'm not sure why exactly, I guess it may allow better B screw adjustment. I think the jockey wheels may need to wear in a bit. After 15 miles of riding I can some wear on both wheels. I didn't while riding but when I got home I noticed playing with drivetrain when bike was on stand. I probably wouldn't suggest anyone getting this cage, unless you really dig look. Just feel like cost and effort to install isn't worth minor-ish gain.
Moving chainring, haven't done tons of testing yet, but seems like night and day difference. 11T seems 'fixed' riding in front of house, and also using 51T doesn't seem like chain can touch the tire. I dunno I'll do some more riding today, I'm hoping it all works. I'd rather stick with the 11-51 over a 11-46, if it does all work out.
Moving chainring, haven't done tons of testing yet, but seems like night and day difference. 11T seems 'fixed' riding in front of house, and also using 51T doesn't seem like chain can touch the tire. I dunno I'll do some more riding today, I'm hoping it all works. I'd rather stick with the 11-51 over a 11-46, if it does all work out.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I just looked at the Shimano cassette Pushkar sent me, to replace the 11-50, and it's an 11-40.
The mountain bike crowd may not like this spread, but for a commuter bike it works just fine.
The mountain bike crowd may not like this spread, but for a commuter bike it works just fine.
Lsthrz
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I think the Hydra crowd is getting a 11-46t cassette which should be better for mtb work.
@bexamous I've had the opposite experience with the Garbaruk. Thought install was pretty painless and the reduction in skipping significant - but that's on my Hydra, don't know what bike you have. I still believe the 8100 or 8130 derailleur may be the best solution, along with the smaller cassette, but I haven't felt pressed to install the 8100 I have because of how well the Garbaruk has performed.
@bexamous I've had the opposite experience with the Garbaruk. Thought install was pretty painless and the reduction in skipping significant - but that's on my Hydra, don't know what bike you have. I still believe the 8100 or 8130 derailleur may be the best solution, along with the smaller cassette, but I haven't felt pressed to install the 8100 I have because of how well the Garbaruk has performed.
Let me bring this thread back up. I need some help with specifics on increasing the size of my front chain ring. I am trying to reduce the time between cassette and chain replacement and reduce my cadence in general.
The bike is a Watt Wagon cargo bike. Every 800 to 1200 miles or so the chain starts skipping on the 11 tooth gear. The 1st time I replace the actual 11 tooth gear and then the next time chain and cassette are needed. I have ridden a couple of of bikes in off road mode which can hit 32 mph and found a slower cadence for the same speeds on both and found them more to my liking. This bike’s lowest 3 gears are useless to my riding style and I will never use it to carry anything so I won’t miss those gears.
This will keep me from staying on the 11 tooth cog so I can still cruise at 28 mph and not wear out parts as fast . The top speed should be at least 37 but no desire to be there but keep me from clown pedaling at higher speeds then 28 on the occasion I do hit 32 to keep up the the others.
Things I need to know are which size ring makes sense to move everything up at least 2 gears. The bike currently has a 44 tooth ring. I assume I will also need a new chain but how much longer? The 1st question the shop asked me is what size the diameter of either the ring or the piece the ring attaches to was 130 something or 133 I think he said. The way he implied it was a choice of some standard size but didn’t know which one ( I am clueless just trying to go by memory)
I tried searching but lack decent search skills I guess… Thanks for the help .,
The bike is a Watt Wagon cargo bike. Every 800 to 1200 miles or so the chain starts skipping on the 11 tooth gear. The 1st time I replace the actual 11 tooth gear and then the next time chain and cassette are needed. I have ridden a couple of of bikes in off road mode which can hit 32 mph and found a slower cadence for the same speeds on both and found them more to my liking. This bike’s lowest 3 gears are useless to my riding style and I will never use it to carry anything so I won’t miss those gears.
This will keep me from staying on the 11 tooth cog so I can still cruise at 28 mph and not wear out parts as fast . The top speed should be at least 37 but no desire to be there but keep me from clown pedaling at higher speeds then 28 on the occasion I do hit 32 to keep up the the others.
Things I need to know are which size ring makes sense to move everything up at least 2 gears. The bike currently has a 44 tooth ring. I assume I will also need a new chain but how much longer? The 1st question the shop asked me is what size the diameter of either the ring or the piece the ring attaches to was 130 something or 133 I think he said. The way he implied it was a choice of some standard size but didn’t know which one ( I am clueless just trying to go by memory)
I tried searching but lack decent search skills I guess… Thanks for the help .,
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To maintain the same top speed and avoid using the 11T and 13T sprockets, you'll need a 60T chainring. (44/11=60/15)
130 BCD is the standard spider size on the Bafang Ultra. I don't know of any high quality chainrings in this size but there are plenty of dubious quality on Amazon and AliExpress.
You'd need to add 8 links to the chain. (60-44)/2
loamoaf
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@opimax use this tool to figure out what will work best for you
www.bikecalc.com
Bicycle Gear Speed Cadence Table | BikeCalc
Calculate cycling speeds at a specified cadence given chainring, sprocket, tire and wheel sizes.
www.bikecalc.com
Fast n' Furious
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Wolftooth makes a 130 48T.
From the pic it looks like a 50T wouldn't clear your chain-stay. That's the limiting factor.
I installed a 48T on my bike - up from the stock 44T. I love it.
More than 11 - 34 is too high geared for me.
FnF
From the pic it looks like a 50T wouldn't clear your chain-stay. That's the limiting factor.
I installed a 48T on my bike - up from the stock 44T. I love it.
More than 11 - 34 is too high geared for me.
FnF
Great thx very much for the replies . I want to make sure I understand the chain stay issue. The chain stay are the 2 beams or tubing running to the rear of the bike which end holding the rear wheel. And the problem would be as the diameter of the chain ring gets larger it brings the chain or ring too close or touches the chain stay because the depth…
Oh never mind trying to write it down got me to understand
Bottom line it can be done with some measurements to verify it will fit. I don’t know if anyone else has this frame so there is no way to check for any previous experiences.
I played a little with the calculator and it seems for what I want that I need the largest fit and take wha improvement I get and instead of 60 I use either 48 (50 if I am lucky) minus 44 =4/2 for 2 links.
When I get this installed I will have waited til it is time to replace the chain and cassette, would I use the same size chain and the shop will add a couple links or is the chain size specific and a different size to begin with ?
I think I have enough knowledge to go look for the ring. the chain question above should be the last question I think
Again thx much
Oh never mind trying to write it down got me to understand
Bottom line it can be done with some measurements to verify it will fit. I don’t know if anyone else has this frame so there is no way to check for any previous experiences.
I played a little with the calculator and it seems for what I want that I need the largest fit and take wha improvement I get and instead of 60 I use either 48 (50 if I am lucky) minus 44 =4/2 for 2 links.
When I get this installed I will have waited til it is time to replace the chain and cassette, would I use the same size chain and the shop will add a couple links or is the chain size specific and a different size to begin with ?
I think I have enough knowledge to go look for the ring. the chain question above should be the last question I think
Again thx much
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I replaced my UC Pro's 44t front ring with a 48t. One concern about going to a larger ring is it has a slight impact on the chain line. The larger front ring can cause more skipping in the smallest cog. Pushkar didn't recommend going any larger than a 48.
After watching a couple of videos on setting up a chain and the correct position of the derailleur, I ended up not adding any length to the chain and the bike shifts fine.
After watching a couple of videos on setting up a chain and the correct position of the derailleur, I ended up not adding any length to the chain and the bike shifts fine.
loamoaf
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How to size a chain for a bike
If the difference is only a couple of links you may be able to get away with not changing the length. Since you'll be sizing up you won't run the risk of too much slack in the higher gears - as long as you can shift into the lowest gears without issue you should be good. My frame has a massive chain stay length so I actually had to put two chains together (only several links from the second chain, but still one was not long enough!) - some ebike chains ship with 144 links which is usually enough to cover anything, but probably more than most people need
If the difference is only a couple of links you may be able to get away with not changing the length. Since you'll be sizing up you won't run the risk of too much slack in the higher gears - as long as you can shift into the lowest gears without issue you should be good. My frame has a massive chain stay length so I actually had to put two chains together (only several links from the second chain, but still one was not long enough!) - some ebike chains ship with 144 links which is usually enough to cover anything, but probably more than most people need
Just a heads up : B screws unless messed up don't need to be messed around with when charging rings . The H and L limit screws might
There's all kind of Youtube Videos that show you how . It's pretty simple . Chain length does matter .Great thx very much for the replies . I want to make sure I understand the chain stay issue. The chain stay are the 2 beams or tubing running to the rear of the bike which end holding the rear wheel. And the problem would be as the diameter of the chain ring gets larger it brings the chain or ring too close or touches the chain stay because the depth…
Oh never mind trying to write it down got me to understand
Bottom line it can be done with some measurements to verify it will fit. I don’t know if anyone else has this frame so there is no way to check for any previous experiences.
I played a little with the calculator and it seems for what I want that I need the largest fit and take wha improvement I get and instead of 60 I use either 48 (50 if I am lucky) minus 44 =4/2 for 2 links.
When I get this installed I will have waited til it is time to replace the chain and cassette, would I use the same size chain and the shop will add a couple links or is the chain size specific and a different size to begin with ?
I think I have enough knowledge to go look for the ring. the chain question above should be the last question I think
Again thx much
Fast n' Furious
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- San Diego
Your case could be different. That's a long chain to accommodate that LWB Cargo bike. I stayed with the same length chain and no problems, shifting is fine.
Now, I'm collecting the parts to change out the cassette, installing a Box derailleur.
From my observations, road and gravel bikes have chain-stays that'll fit a 50T(+).
Look at how tight my fit was w/ a 48T in pics 442 and 307.
Wide range cassettes serve me no purpose and are subject to chain engagement issues. They wear faster too. I find anything over 33T useless.
Another option I'm looking into is using a cassette that starts with a 10T. Here's some info on that: Shimano 10T cogs
A 10T produces the same ratio as having a size +52T ring gear w/ a 48T ring on an 11T cog.
So an 8% increase there, plus you started with (what looks to be) a 44T ring, so you gained 9% there = 17%.
22mph becomes 25.75mph; 25mph = 29.25mph; 32 = 37.4mph. I think you have arrived.
The problem there is the Shimano markup. My last Shimano cassette was $21.50. The 10-tooth start SRAM 12-speed is $195.00 plus shipping and that's the low end model. They climb to over $400.00 and are all made for 'compatible' e-shifters that cost more than the bike - and 'eat it' if you lay it down.
For a mid-drive that's completely unrealistic.
We assume we'll upkeep/ upgrade so conscientiously we won't be the one, but 'wear and tear' has other ideas.
Unfortunately, as the chain wears out it ruins everything else it's running through and over. If the derailleur wears out the chain goes (and vice versa), and if the cogs are damaged, it kills the chain - so when changing the cogs, you must change the chain too - unless the derailleur was also damaged, then you have to change everything.
It adds up to if you change any drivetrain part, you change them all. Not at those prices.
You're one of a few people on the forums that have had a major influence in my evolution of thought regarding drivetrains.
So - that's a big span - if it will fit specs, you know the answer is an IGH and belt.
BTW did you resolve your belt issues on the UC?
Last I heard you were taking some time out after an accident.
Good to see your commentary again.
FnF
Now, I'm collecting the parts to change out the cassette, installing a Box derailleur.
From my observations, road and gravel bikes have chain-stays that'll fit a 50T(+).
Look at how tight my fit was w/ a 48T in pics 442 and 307.
Wide range cassettes serve me no purpose and are subject to chain engagement issues. They wear faster too. I find anything over 33T useless.
Another option I'm looking into is using a cassette that starts with a 10T. Here's some info on that: Shimano 10T cogs
A 10T produces the same ratio as having a size +52T ring gear w/ a 48T ring on an 11T cog.
So an 8% increase there, plus you started with (what looks to be) a 44T ring, so you gained 9% there = 17%.
22mph becomes 25.75mph; 25mph = 29.25mph; 32 = 37.4mph. I think you have arrived.
The problem there is the Shimano markup. My last Shimano cassette was $21.50. The 10-tooth start SRAM 12-speed is $195.00 plus shipping and that's the low end model. They climb to over $400.00 and are all made for 'compatible' e-shifters that cost more than the bike - and 'eat it' if you lay it down.
For a mid-drive that's completely unrealistic.
We assume we'll upkeep/ upgrade so conscientiously we won't be the one, but 'wear and tear' has other ideas.
Unfortunately, as the chain wears out it ruins everything else it's running through and over. If the derailleur wears out the chain goes (and vice versa), and if the cogs are damaged, it kills the chain - so when changing the cogs, you must change the chain too - unless the derailleur was also damaged, then you have to change everything.
It adds up to if you change any drivetrain part, you change them all. Not at those prices.
You're one of a few people on the forums that have had a major influence in my evolution of thought regarding drivetrains.
So - that's a big span - if it will fit specs, you know the answer is an IGH and belt.
BTW did you resolve your belt issues on the UC?
Last I heard you were taking some time out after an accident.
Good to see your commentary again.
FnF
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Fast n' Furious
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As I remember, photo's posted show you can't go any larger than a 48T because it will conflict with the chain-stay.
How is the chain-line effected by a 3mm larger ring gear? Contact uptake and output points feed on an identical plane. The pick up and feed points are almost exactly the same.
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Everybody and what I read says (if your jumping cogs) to adjust the "B" screw, moving the derailleur to a slight (outward) bias towards the problem cogs. This remedy assumes your cogs are not damaged, and of course the derailleur and chain are in good condition.
I'd change those parts out (and dump that wide range 'mountain bike' cassette, since they are common causes of skipping problems) and go with a Shimano 11 - 36t mtb/ road cassette. These are all 'expendable' parts and I expect to pay about $300.00 every year to replace them.
'Cost of doing business'. You were 100% correct. A belt is the way to go and that means an IGH.
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You're lucky you have the equipment.
Clamped in a stand, from behind the bike you can observe the feed line in various gears.
The bottom of the derailleur should align with the appropriate cog in every gear. As these people (https://havefunbiking.com/rear-derailleurs-relatively-maintenance-free/) put it "look closely at how the chain runs on the cog (looking from behind is easiest). If the chain isn’t coming directly off the upper jockey wheel and going straight onto the small cog you need to adjust the upper limit. By threading the limit in or out you can adjust where the derailleur sits in relation to that smallest cog ...".
Really great pictures too.
FnF
