RideWithGPS

[Chazmo]

@Chargeride , I don’t know about the map(s) that RWGPS has in the UK, but where I ride in central MA (USA) their mapping is pretty good. I lost track of your conversation above with Stefan, but if you have a RWGPS question let me know.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What time are you posting, I dont know where I will be

Late. Wasted the whole day by the PC
P.S. It is 17:05 my time (4:05 pm. yours), I will make the report in some time.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Chargeride, here is how Wahoo EDGE Ace works.

First, necessary to mention there is no need to upload the course to the device on your familiar route (as mine to the pharmacy, tobacco kiosk or specialty beer store). I entered a route from Komoot for demonstration purposes.

Normal navigation. The contens and number of the data fields is optional.

Approaching a climb. Normally, a Summit data screen could pop up there but I disabled it as I live in the plains and don't need yet another data screen.

The black arrows is the planned course. I intentionally diverged off course (the black line marks my actual course ridden so far). Optionally, the computer would auto-reroute (blue arrows). As I zoomed the map off, I can see the planned course, so I know how to go back on course. If I had the Auto-Reroute off, I would just try riding toward the course. Note green arrows, another incline.

I locked the navigation now. The data fields returned and I could see there were 234 m to go back on the course.

Here are the 11 data fields, maximum allowed for the ACE. The fields present various data from a Specialized e-bike and other information. The fields are diminished by the "Ride auto-paused" banner. As I restarted the ride, the data fields became a way bigger.

Clicking a physical button will reduce the number of data fields but make the type large. It is the user who decides on the number, contents, and the order of data fields.

Note: The screen here is touch sensitive but I do everything using large buttons as I wear thick gloves on winter rides

 

[Chargeride]

Which one is the Netflix button?

yes its feature packed, but I want feature light and navigation heavy.
I dont stick to a route ,its just a general wander based on specific trails long the way.
I think I can fix it by fudging the route plot.

 

[edobici_forza]

Sorry, can we go back on topic for a second? Especially, since I forwarded this thread to my friend/ride buddy who does not have a GPS computer and I suggested RidewithGPS. I am no expert, but am transferring over to RWGPS myself, for route planning.
His DIY tadpole trike ebike is his ride. I am trying to plan rides with him in our local area (SF/SJ Bay Area).
So, does RWGPS, show legal ebike trails? He wants to know.
Thank you!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

So, does RWGPS, show legal ebike trails?

Here in coastal SoCal, the RideWithGPS cycling layer is pretty good about (a) showing most offroad cycling opportunities, and (b) NOT showing trails closed to all bikes. But it's not perfect on either score and has nothing to say about legal ebike access.

RideWithGPS also has a USGS topo layer that often shows map features and geographic names that you never see anywhere else. It's become my default in our highly complex local terrain.

Google Maps in bicycle mode is probably more useful than you think but not quite as good as RideWithGPS on (a) and (b). However, it sometimes provides info not given by RideWithGPS.

Finally, you can use the satellite views available in both to preview routes. You can easily assess bike infrastructure, can often pick out gates, and can usually distinguish pavement from dirt and wider bikeways from single tracks.

 

[Chazmo]

@edobici_forza , I think Jeremy uses it more thoroughly than I do, but here’s my usage. And, I love the app, though I have little to compare it with (other than car GPS apps).

I almost exclusively use the RWGPS Cycle map and turn on/off the various options (mostly unpaved cycling layer). Currently the MTB Trail Ratings layer does nothing for me, but might be useful in other areas. Also, I often turn on the global heatmap to find new trails (not always good for me), but it’s awesome for poking around.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I want feature light and navigation heavy.

I dont stick to a route ,its just a general wander based on specific trails long the way.

I must derail this thread again, sorry, Ed!
Chris, it looks you do not need the GPS navigation at all; you need an excellent map with your current GPS pointer. Let us do a little speculation here. Assume you equip yourself with an older -- big screen and inxpensive --smartphone. Mount it in something very solid such as a QuadLock. Try Komoot in the totally free mode (it will certainly work free for one Region, your home one). The great thing about Komoot is it has excellent cycling maps including the UK (Komoot is perfect for Europe including the British Isles). (Yes, you need to make an account and log onto Komoot, same with the PC).

Go to Record. You probably don't need to record your ride at all, only the Activity Type such as Cycling should be selected to use a correct map. Click the "navigation arrow" on the on-screen menu. It will detect your current position. Then just ride. The GPS marker will move as you ride. As it is a map, a very good map, you'd be always aware of your whereabouts. You would be able to zoom in and out as well as pan the map, so you can orientate yourself. No need to Record, no need to Navigate.

I am only unsure how much you can get with the free license. Perhaps it is 100% your needs?

Now, the PC. After you have logged onto Komoot on the computer, you can go into the Route Planning mode. Again, no need to Plan anything. Just scroll to the area of interest and peruse the map. The Route Planning mode will display hundreds if not thousands Point of Interest as well as Heatmaps and even the actual photos of the trails! So you can explore the area before even going with your van there! The heatmaps show where other people have actually ridden. So if some bridleway has nobody riding it, expect trouble You could be of course the first to explore the previously unexplored trails! Note: Komoot even displays padlocks where you are guaranteed not to come through

Now, again, I'm not sure how much you could use Komoot totally free. In the worst case scenario, it is a one time flat fee to Unlock All Regions and that's what anyone with more serious needs than yours does.

Cheers!

The Record mode with no recording on, Cycling Map, zoomed out. The map already shows a Point Of Interest, the Moszna Smoke Stack!

My closest neighbourhood, Komoot Route Planner (PC). "The Great Chimney in Moszna" and "Concrete Tower with a Face" is the same thing More valuable is the information you cannot ride a road through the cement plant. Also, nobody has warned you the access to the lake is forbidden

P.S. Green lines are for bike paths.

 

[Chargeride]

I use plotaroute.com, it has heatmaps but I cant imagine any scenario where that would cause me not to put any path into my route.
My only complaints are it assuming I want to record the trail...Ive put the freaking thing in myself.

I need to up my knowledge of the language of map geekdom.
Routes, trails , paths, waypoints..what they exactly mean and how they are treated by various navigation software.
Are KMLs different to GPX in a way that might help me, why does it jump to lap completed and show me a load of lap times like Im in a race?

I dont even know what RWGPS means.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My only complaints are it assuming I want to record the trail...Ive put the freaking thing in myself.

I've checked that Komoot didn't need you to Plan or Record anything. Just a good scalable cycling map, a GPS pointer, that's it.

Are KMLs different to GPX in a way that might help me, why does it jump to lap completed and show me a load of lap times like Im in a race?

KML is the Google disaster, nobody's using it. People only use GPX files for the route; it is the navigation lingua franca. Komoot will export the GPX (it can also import a GPX).

Routes, trails , paths, waypoints..what they exactly mean and how they are treated by various navigation software.

A quick glossary:

• Route: a plan for your ride
• Being on/off course: Following (or not) the route
• Waypoint: a point, which forms the route
• POI: A place on your route you are interested in (e.g. a cafe)
• Trail: a segment on a route that has specific properties. For example: a difficult (technical) trail is a path on which you better are able to master your MTB This term is not used in navigation unless it defines a very specific ride segment you cannot avoid. NB: "singletrack" is a typical example of a technical trail. It can be natural or man-made (a rock garden)
• Path: Not a road A bridleway is a path
• Cue: a point created by the GPS software/device for turn by turn navigation: "Next cue in 100 yards" means "Expect a turn or a crossing after 91 metres"
• Re-route: an automatic or on demand replanning your route so you can return on course.
• Re-trace: Automatically make a return route so you follow your steps back to the starting point. The re-traced route might be slightly different because of one way streets
• Take me to: You define the finish point and the GPS software/device will create a route to take you safely there (e.g. Take me... Home).

Ask me anything.

I dont even know what RWGPS means.

RideWithGPS: an American route planner/phone satnav/sports tracker
Komoot: a European route planner/phone satnav/sports tracker
Strava: an American route planner/phone satnav/sports tracker/social medium. Strava has a terribly bad route planner.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

KML is the Google disaster, nobody's using it.

KML may have little use in cycling, but it's by no means a disaster. It turns Google Earth into a powerful programmable 3D geographic information system. Made extensive use if it in my geoscience days. Quite elegant.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

KML may have little use in cycling, but it's by no means a disaster. It turns Google Earth into a powerful programmable 3D geographic information system. Made extensive use if it in my geoscience days. Quite elegant.

I meant cycling. Interestingly, the .FIT file can store a way more information than the GPX, so it is used for ride recording (Specialized App, Wahoo...) but the GPX is the cycling thing

 

[BlackHand]

Sure,

• Komoot (after being bought by another company) must have a lot money injected in the machine! I can see the fastest development ongoing for years!

What makes Komoot so popular is the fact you don't need the subscription. However, you need to pay a flat rate to unlock Regions one time.

Komoot's new owners laid off 85% of the staff and are better known for extracting profit than investing in groundbreaking new features. They don't run stuff into the ground but paywalling features with minimal effort to sustain the product and maximum profit seems to be their m.o.

Then again maybe there is some master plan I'm not seeing behind the Evernote/Vimeo/Komoot/WeTransfer/AOL empire that Bent Spoons is assembling.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Sure,

Komoot's new owners laid off 85% of the staff and are better known for extracting profit than investing in groundbreaking new features. They don't run stuff into the ground but paywalling features with minimal effort to sustain the product and maximum profit seems to be their m.o.

Then again maybe there is some master plan I'm not seeing behind the Evernote/Vimeo/Komoot/WeTransfer/AOL empire that Bent Spoons is assembling.

Steve, whatever the new owners did, I can see the ongoing development in Komoot, something I haven't seen in years.
Besides, RWGPS certainly has noticed that: a lot on new things there, too.

 

[stompandgo]

Quoting myself only to emphasize that it's a gross oversimplification to say that phone-based mapping/recording eats up phone batteries.

That's certainly the case for RideWithGPS with the screen always on. But you can cut back screen usage in the settings to good effect. And it's not true at all of the Specialized app running in dark mode on an OLED screen. I think OLED screens are pretty common now.

That's true for any app in dark mode. It's a gross oversimplification to assume that every phone user knows this, and knows how to take advantage of it. GPS tracking in normal mode eats battery, OLED display or otherwise, and a dedicated cycling computer offloads it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That's true for any app in dark mode. It's a gross oversimplification to assume that every phone user knows this, and knows how to take advantage of it. GPS tracking in normal mode eats battery, OLED display or otherwise, and a dedicated cycling computer offloads it.

Ah, Jeremy never goes on really long rides. It was so different for me when the phone based navigation and e-bike control program were eating batteries of my pre-S24U phones as much as I might not have an operable phone to pay for the return train ticket... or to present the ticket to the controller later.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

It's a gross oversimplification to assume that every phone user knows this, and knows how to take advantage of it

Never made that claim. And it's irrelevant. A blanket statement that phone-based GPS mapping doesn't work on bicycles because it uses too much phone battery, implying no exceptions, is patently false. And it'd be nice if members stopped spreading that misinformation.

There are in fact important and valuable exceptions. Even RideWithGPS has a workable current draw when you don't need the screen on full time, and it has no dark mode.

And if it weren't for the risk of camera damage in certain phones, I'd still be using a phone on my bars instead of a Wahoo ACE.

 

[Chargeride]

Jeremys correct, I ordered mine, but I may have made a mistake ..ring ding

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I suspect the stabilization issue has a lot to do with the type of surfaces, the phone, and the bike...

Absolutely, a very complicated technical issue. Nothing intuitive about vibration engineering. The devil's always in the details.

Reports of phone damage on handlebars first hit critical mass on motorcycles. And Quadlock did the right thing: They hired vibration experts, identified the damaging frequencies, traced them back to engine (NOT road) vibrations, and developed a carefully tuned vibration damper that motorcycle users could add to their existing phone mounts.

QuadLock even produced a video showing the very expensive test lab they built just to get to the bottom of this risk. And they've stated many times in many places that these dampers are NOT for bicycles. They're for motorcycle-specific vibrations that, per QuadLock, aren't significant on bicycles. Specifically said the dampers are NOT for road vibrations — wrong frequencies.

Then Apple issued a warning about growing reports of bicycle-related camera damage on certain iPhones. Not all.

Now it looks like the risk lies with certain high-end mechanical camera features like image stabilization and auto-focus. Hopefully, all that will get sorted with time. Meanwhile, no more expensive phones on handlebars for me!

of course that doesn’t mean nobody will, but my suspicion is that a light, compliant but stiff road bike with tubeless tires on decent roads is never going to destroy a phone camera, at least not within the mileage of even a very enthusiastic amateur.

That would be my guess, too, but this is very trick my stuff.

I did some gravel with the same setup, and the vibrations are certainly at a whole ‘‘nother level…‘

Yes, I often ride on cobble pavement and rough hardpack. Can't tell you how many times I saw my phone vibrating WILDLY in its out-front QuadLock mount. And did nothing because I thought that there was nothing mechanical inside.

 

[stompandgo]

Never made that claim. And it's irrelevant. A blanket statement that phone-based GPS mapping doesn't work on bicycles because it uses too much phone battery, implying no exceptions, is patently false. And it'd be nice if members stopped spreading that misinformation.

There are in fact important and valuable exceptions. Even RideWithGPS has a workable current draw when you don't need the screen on full time, and it has no dark mode.

And if it weren't for the risk of camera damage in certain phones, I'd still be using a phone on my bars instead of a Wahoo ACE.

There's an exception to every rule. That doesn't make the rule "misinformation". I can't stand that overused and often incorrect term.