Orbea Gain M30 - have I made a mistake?

[Wisigoth]

Hi all. I have loved my Cube Acid Hybrid since 2019, but now, being senior and female, I was finding the 22kg weight limiting, the bike being difficult to lift and transport. I researched and decided on the 12kg 2023 Orbea Gain M30. The X20 motor with its 55nm torque is just slightly more powerful than the 50nm of the Cube, and this was a deciding factor as I live up a big hill. One of the reviews claimed that with 55nm, the Gain would fly up hills, so it seemed exactly what I wanted……. However, although I can get home carrying shopping using 3/4 of the assist on the heavy Cube Acid, I need to stop and regroup using full power on the Gain with no additional load. My other half has tinkered with the software to try to make sure the Gain is fully powered but it seems to make little difference. We’re planning a bike tour with panniers and I’m worried. Could there be a fault with the Gain, or have I made a bad choice?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

or have I made a bad choice?

The motor torque figures posted by motor manufacturers/e-bike OEMs might be misleading. I think the max motor power delivered by the X20 is way below the mid-drive Bosch motor could produce on the Cube (these figures are difficult to obtain though).

However, what really counts here is the gearing, and the power transmission by the mid-drive Bosch motor over the drivetrain/gearing. A hub-drive motor delivers the constant power/torque available for a given assistance level directly into the rear wheel. A mid-motor delivers variable power (depending on your leg input), which is transferred to the rear wheel by the chain/cassette. Your Cube has had a good gearing (the lowest being 38-36T), making the power/torque transmission from the motor to the rear wheel a way more efficient.

Generally, mid-drive motors are excellent climbers at relatively low motor power. Hub-drives require a lot of motor power to do the same, and you will not find a powerful hub-drive motor on a Euro e-bike.

Bad choice. (I understand you had no chance to demo ride the Orbea prior to the purchase?)

 

[Wisigoth]

Hi Stefan. Thanks for that. Really helpful. I saw that some vendors in UK offer 30 day trials but although my trusted bike shop in France offered a carefully measured frame fitting, it isn’t customary to offer more than a ride around the immediate area. I did attempt a ride round the car park, but their store model had drop handlebars which were totally alien to me (I bought a flat bar). The idea of a rear motor appealed to me so I could have a friction free ride without the battery. I didn’t realise it would make hill climbing so much harder.
However, now I know there’s no fault, I’ll just have to get used to it and get fitter. It does have a lot of advantages over my heavy Cube, it’s just not the lightweight panacea I’d hoped for. I was going to sell the Cube, but I’ll see how things go. Thanks again.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

it’s just not the lightweight panacea I’d hoped for.

In theory, 10 kg of the weight difference should make the difference on climbing but it is only valid for skinny riders

My medical condition requires the electrical assistance. I'm riding a heavy powerful e-bike as well as a low power lightweight one, both mid-drive motors. As I have got (surprisingly to myself) more fit, I got an appetite for a very lightweight traditional bicycle. What a disappointment! While that bike weighed just 10 kg (not 17 or 26 like my e-bikes), it allowed me a dramatically slow ride. I weigh 95 kg in clothes, shoes and the helmet, so the lightweight bicycle turned out to be a no-go for me. And now think of climbing...

Fortunately for me, a bicycle brand I chose offers both 1-hour free demo rides a couple a times a year, or you can rent a demo bike/e-bike for a day or several hours against a fee. Several demo rides I have had cured me from my dreams related to most of the bikes/e-bikes offered. In a single case, a paid demo ride ended with a purchase

 

[Ben J]

I need to stop and regroup using full power on the Gain with no additional load.

This shouldn't happen even if the motor is quite weak. With a front derailleur and a rear cassette that goes to 50t, that bike has some really low gears. I could believe your hill climb would be "annoyingly slow" but there's no way you should outright run out of torque with that gearing available.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This shouldn't happen even if the motor is quite weak. With a front derailleur and a rear cassette that goes to 50t, that bike has some really low gears. I could believe your hill climb would be "annoyingly slow" but there's no way you should outright run out of torque with that gearing available.

The 34-32T gearing of the Gain is not impressive as for steep climbs when combined with a low power hub-drive motor.
The Cube Acid Hybrid is 38-36T but it is a full power mid-drive.

 

[Ben J]

The 34-32T gearing of the Gain is not impressive as for steep climbs when combined with a low power hub-drive motor.

Oh, I looked at the numbers and saw 50T and 32T and just made MTB assumptions about which was which without reading the text next to them.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Wisigoth is still in a good situation as he she now owns two completely different e-bikes, either for a different purpose. I am sure the fitness level will greatly improve with the Gain for him her!

 

[Wisigoth]

@Wisigoth is still in a good situation as he now owns two completely different e-bikes, either for a different purpose. I am sure the fitness level will greatly improve with the Gain for him!

I’m a “her”, Stefan, but yes, I look forward to getting fitter and hope soon I’ll have the ability to use my Gain for shopping. Thank you for your expert knowledge.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I’m a “her”

This gender-neutral English! So sorry, Wisigoth!

 

[Wisigoth]

No problem, Stefan. Have a great weekend.

 

[indianajo]

One of the reviews claimed that with 55nm, the Gain would fly up hills, so it seemed exactly what I wanted……. However, although I can get home carrying shopping using 3/4 of the assist on the heavy Cube Acid, I need to stop and regroup using full power on the Gain with no additional load.

Torque is the measure of how much force the motor will exert on the ground. Divide torque by wheel radius (actual not nominal) to get force. This torque is peak at some RPM, not the torque at stall (start up), Weight of bike+load+accessories+rider * % grade = force required to start it up that grade.
Power is the measure of how much weight can be lifted how far how fast. ft lb per hour. Or nm per hour. Mahle is a very low power motor.
I also shop on my bike, and find that 350 w motors (bafang) are not capable of carrying my loads up the hills I have to climb. When I I overvolted to make the climb possible (36 v motor, 48 v battery) the motor winding burned. Fortunately I bought a 1000 w high torque low speed Mac12t in 2018 before 36 states outlawed them on roads. After repairing some rain damage to the wiring harness connector & controller in 2019, I'm back carrying 60 lb groceries up 12% hills. (don't ever use an ASI controller in the rain, the pins are too close). I do pedal drag free on the flats, downhills, and up some of the lower grades.
I don't ever lift my bike, so the 84 lb weight unloaded, 92 lb with spares tools clothes & water, is not a problem to me.
I'm male but I only weigh 155 lb these days. Down from 213 when I quit shopping from automobiles in 2008. The cheapest weight to lose on a bike is the fat on my body.

 

[Wisigoth]

Bravo, Indianajo, for getting so fit. I’m determined this bike will do that for me. I’m going to hang on to my Cube for when we cycle up Mont Ventoux, but relieved of the heavy weight of the Cube, I’m now planning trips which involve doing some sectors on the train. Living in rural France, I find the little railway stations don’t have lifts (elevators), so taking the bike up and down flights of steps was too difficult before I got the 12kg Orbea. It’s not a panacea but with a choice of bike, more doors are open to me.
Thanks for all the technical info. I’ve learned a lot from you and Stefan Mikes that never appeared in the reviews.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Living in rural France, I find the little railway stations don’t have lifts (elevators), so taking the bike up and down flights of steps was too difficult before I got the 12kg Orbea. It’s not a panacea but with a choice of bike, more doors are open to me.

The same feeling about my Vado SL.

Although the Walk Mode in my heavy Vado 6.0 solves the matter (at least when we talk the stairs) The heavy e-bike is only really bad when you actually need to lift and carry it!