New to the forum. Few questions.

[6zfshdb]

I don't know if it's that simple.

Do you know if Ferrari and Lamborghini know that their customers might attempt to break the legal speed limit?
What about Ducati or Kawasaki? What's the point of selling motorcycles that can go 0-60mph in 2.4 seconds? I mean.. they should know better.
How about dirtbikes, ATV companies like Polaris and KTM? Some people might attempt to ride dirtbikes on public road.

It definitely isn't that simple.

Manufacturers have been producing products that push the envelope for decades and there are always those who are willing to buy & abuse them. These companies retain a battery of lawyers ready to jump on this type of lawsuit. Most result in dismissal or out of court settlements.

Of more importance to us here is this: The automobile, motorcycle and ATV industries are relatively immune from laws banning their use due to the sheer number of voting owners. Any politician proposing a radical ban on the use of these vehicles would likely be voted out of office. The e-bike industry is relatively new and there aren't yet enough owners out there to give us this "safety in numbers" protection.

Unfortunately, it will only take a few of the above abuse incidents to generate bad press resulting in more anti e-bike legislation.

 

[antboy]

I didn't feel the need to mention that I would not be driving it at 60kmh during winter months, felt that was self explanatory. I would drive it at low speeds on crappy roads as does everyone driving a car..

As an electrician, you're probably in a better spot than most to start a build, but with a $3000 CDN limit, I'd recommend buying something pre-built from a Canada-based company. For years I considered going with a conversion kit on my Specialized Sirrus Sport, but when I revisited the idea last year, I saw how dramatically the prices had dropped on pre-built e-bikes of all flavours.

The Rad Rover 5 is $2000 CDN with a rear hub motor, while the Biktrix Juggernaut Classic is $2500 CDN with a mid drive. Both are from reputable companies, and tick all the boxes you need except the 60 kph off-road number.

They're both under your budget enough that you could probably add on a second battery, if you plan to do a lot of winter commuting.

 

[tomjasz]

become illegal.

That's not how our laws work.

 

[tomjasz]

I must plainly say it is not "the freedom of choice" Thomas.

For those riders it is. Look I'm not condoning or ever supporting of those builds. But I'm afraid your EU standards just don't apply. It isn't a violation of any rules or laws if they were run on private property. Again, a loophole for the sale of DOZENS of models of high power motors on the road here.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What did the Law of California read? "It is a crime".
Perhaps you Thomas only ride e-bikes on your ranch and then you are legal. Such e-bike gets illegal when ridden on the public road.

You may say I do not understand your laws. Okay, is carrying a concealed gun legal in the State of Texas?

 

[indianajo]

I must plainly say it is not "the freedom of choice" Thomas. It is the extreme egoism endangering the riders and people nearby.

I ride on rural roads populated by 2000 lb "ATV"'s , unlicensed as "farm vehicles", frequently operated by children, and typically moving at 60 mph with no lights on at dusk. Usually painted camoflage pattern. I'm not nearly as worried about 4 kw ebikes.

 

[Zeppelin99]

As an electrician, you're probably in a better spot than most to start a build, but with a $3000 CDN limit, I'd recommend buying something pre-built from a Canada-based company. For years I considered going with a conversion kit on my Specialized Sirrus Sport, but when I revisited the idea last year, I saw how dramatically the prices had dropped on pre-built e-bikes of all flavours.

The Rad Rover 5 is $2000 CDN with a rear hub motor, while the Biktrix Juggernaut Classic is $2500 CDN with a mid drive. Both are from reputable companies, and tick all the boxes you need except the 60 kph off-road number.

They're both under your budget enough that you could probably add on a second battery, if you plan to do a lot of winter commuting.

This is an old post actually, it just seems to have grabbed the attention of a forum member who is anti luna cycle lol.
I've already started my DIY build (shown in my profile photo) but still waiting for a few packages to arrive in the mail.
I do however find this guys trivial uproar both idle and rather entertaining..

 

[antboy]

This is an old post actually, it just seems to have grabbed the attention of a forum member who is anti luna cycle lol.
I've already started my DIY build (shown in my profile photo) but still waiting for a few packages to arrive in the mail.
I do however find this guys trivial uproar both idle and rather entertaining..

Ah, I usually try to pay better attention to dates on threads. Looks good.

 

[antboy]

What did the Law of California read? "It is a crime".
Perhaps you Thomas only ride e-bikes on your ranch and then you are legal. Such e-bike gets illegal when ridden on the public road.

You may say I do not understand your laws. Okay, is carrying a concealed gun legal in the State of Texas?

I'm just going to hop in, because I don't understand what concealed carry laws in Texas have to do with e-bike speeds, when it's easier to point out that just about every gas-powered car on the road is capable of going faster than any US posted speed limit.

That doesn't mean one is allowed to drive a car beyond the speed limit on public roads.

Similarly, my e-bike is capable of going 32 KPH before the motor stops assisting, but when I'm on a mixed use path with a 20 KPH speed limit, I generally stick to it, depending on traffic flow.

Just because a law is a law, doesn't make it a just law.

If e-bikes are speed restricted, shouldn't pedal bikes be similarly limited? Maybe a mechanism in the rear hub to create more resistance if somebody is flying down a hilly road at 20.5 KPH?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm just going to hop in, because I don't understand what concealed carry laws in Texas have to do with e-bike speeds, when it's easier to point out that just about every gas-powered car on the road is capable of going faster than any US posted speed limit.

That doesn't mean one is allowed to drive a car beyond the speed limit on public roads.

Let me explain the analogy. As far as I can understand, you can carry a gun in the public in Texas as long as it is visible to others. Analogy: you can ride a monster e-bike on a private property as much as you like. Now, if you hide the gun or carry it in where the proprietor banned guns, it becomes illegal; if you ride out the monster e-bike onto the public road, it becomes illegal.

Many people -- especially in this thread -- try to draw an analogy between e-bike law and car/motorcycle law. That is futile gesture. One may be dissatisfied with current law and contest it but it is the law. "Dura lex sed lex", it's hard law but it's still the law. The current law wherever it is precisely defined limits the motor power and maximum assistance speed. Full stop.

(I concur with opinions saying monster e-bikes can even further worsen the existing e-bike law due to anti-ebike sentiments.)

 

[tomjasz]

What did the Law of California read? "It is a crime".
Perhaps you Thomas only ride e-bikes on your ranch and then you are legal. Such e-bike gets illegal when ridden on the public road.

You may say I do not understand your laws. Okay, is carrying a concealed gun legal in the State of Texas?

California is one of 50 States. Each state has it's own laws, and of course, each must follow federal guidelines. These high-speed bikes are strictly speaking illegal on public highways, but when laws aren't enforced more are built. Most states are limited to 750W and 20MPH. I'm guessing there are tens of thousands of DIY bikes outside of that range.

Gun laws are another can of worms, I alluded to them but am certainly not foolish enough to start that discussion here. It's a hot button topic that gets all sorts of emotions riled up. Some states do allow concealed carry without a license, but most states require training and a permit. But I think there are some parallels. Americans seem willing to take the lumps and the risks.

What did the Law of California read? "It is a crime".
Perhaps you Thomas only ride e-bikes on your ranch and then you are legal. Such e-bike gets illegal when ridden on the public road.

You may say I do not understand your laws. Okay, is carrying a concealed gun legal in the State of Texas?

 

[tomjasz]

I struggle holding myself back from building with a Lightening Rods mid drive. Itchy fingers want to hit buy.

 

[tomjasz]

Two stage Small Block mid drive. This bottom bracket drive with two stages of reduction is meant to synchronize motor speed with pedaling speed. At 2500 watts the Small Block Motor is still very power...

tempting as it could end up on a custom trike.
Completely irresponsibly delightful idea. VVVBG.

 

[antboy]

Let me explain the analogy. As far as I can understand, you can carry a gun in the public in Texas as long as it is visible to others. Analogy: you can ride a monster e-bike on a private property as much as you like. Now, if you hide the gun or carry it in where the proprietor banned guns, it becomes illegal; if you ride out the monster e-bike onto the public road, it becomes illegal.

Many people -- especially in this thread -- try to draw an analogy between e-bike law and car/motorcycle law. That is futile gesture. One may be dissatisfied with current law and contest it but it is the law. "Dura lex sed lex", it's hard law but it's still the law. The current law wherever it is precisely defined limits the motor power and maximum assistance speed. Full stop.

(I concur with opinions saying monster e-bikes can even further worsen the existing e-bike law due to anti-ebike sentiments.)

If you need to explain an analogy that much...

Seriously though, using other vehicular laws as a frame of reference for e-bikes makes more sense than bringing gun laws into it.

In that vein, saying "the law is the law" is one thing, but the law isn't immutable either. On its face, limiting e-bike speeds to a speed slower than a speed easily achievable by pedal bikes is wrongheaded.

 

[tomjasz]

If you need to explain an analogy that much...

Seriously though, using other vehicular laws as a frame of reference for e-bikes makes more sense than bringing gun laws into it.

In that vein, saying "the law is the law" is one thing, but the law isn't immutable either. On its face, limiting e-bike speeds to a speed slower than a speed easily achievable by pedal bikes is wrongheaded.

I’m guilty of alluding to the gun comparison. Stephan remarked about risks and legality of high speed eBikes. One look at American culture and it should be obvious we’re risk takers. I think I can be trusted to assess my own level of risk rather than the overly nanny conditions throughout the EU. But, I wouldn’t be unhappy in most of EU countries.

Mind, I don’t approve of high speed bikes, FOR MYSELF.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

At least we have bike lanes in the EU Despite of the nanny state Europe regulations, or because of them, e-bikes are widely accepted and used in Europe and there are no whimsical local bans on e-bike riding.

Which does not mean Europe has no own "fast & furious".

I met this guy at Specialized store in Warsaw. He was admiring my Vado 5 and behaved as if he could see the first speed production e-bike in his life.

 

[antboy]

I’m guilty of alluding to the gun comparison. Stephan remarked about risks and legality of high speed eBikes. One look at American culture and it should be obvious we’re risk takers. I think I can be trusted to assess my own level of risk rather than the overly nanny conditions throughout the EU. But, I wouldn’t be unhappy in most of EU countries.

Mind, I don’t approve of high speed bikes, FOR MYSELF.

I've always found analogies to break down after first blush, unless they're used for humour of course.

Being Canadian, I'd say we're half way between Europe and the US (in a lot of ways), but when it comes to laws governing individual behaviour, I definitely lean towards the same "I can be trusted to assess my own level of risk" perspective.

In regards to e-bikes in particular, the 3 class system is overly obtuse, and it would be much easier to have one class that limits the bike to the class 3 level, which is not quite the speed limit for city streets, in most US and Canadian cities.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

From my perspective, @antboy, the Canadian e-bike speed limit of 32 km/h is ideal from the perspective of safety and practical aspects such as battery range. I wish we had that in Europe instead of struggling with Class 3 bikes outside our bike lanes. Very few acoustic cyclists ride over 32 km/h on a bike lane, and road cyclists hate riding in the lanes. I rode my Vado in a streams of cars on a principal road yesterday, was scared and wished I could use a parallel bike lane but it is not allowed for Class 3 bikes in Europe.

In regards to e-bikes in particular, the 3 class system is overly obtuse, and it would be much easier to have one class that limits the bike to the class 3 level, which is not quite the speed limit for city streets, in most US and Canadian cities.

It is somewhat different on a narrow dedicated bike lane, especially when it is shared with pedestrians.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

There are a lot of roads where you can ride 28mph or even 30mph safely.

You mean, dedicated bike lanes, completely separate from the road?

 

[indianajo]

You mean, dedicated bike lanes, completely separate from the road?

Some states like Texas frequently have an 8' wide "parking" lane outside the driving lane. Some states like Indiana frequently have 11' wide lanes. Some states like Kentucky have lanes wider than 9' only on limited access highways (no bicycles pedestrians or animals), and lots of 8' lanes. I live 2 miles from Kentucky and rarely ride a bicycle there. When I do ride in Louisville I ride on the sidewalk which is illegal but unenforced. I can get to the symphony hall on the sidewalk. Nobody walks in Louisville. Most of the richer parts of Louisville have no sidewalks, 8' lanes, and I don't attend free concerts over there.