New Delite?
- Thread starter Hompie
- Start date
Yes, that would be the new Delite in Bosch color and without any Riese&Müller markings but it is easy to recognize.
Frame is now finally smooth welded which is a huge improvement. Looks great around the motor and the new cable management should avoid scraching the head tube. Intubes now which unfortunately was to be expected.
If they now would change to Power coating instead of the wet paint they are using now they could make a huge step to really being premium.
Frame is now finally smooth welded which is a huge improvement. Looks great around the motor and the new cable management should avoid scraching the head tube. Intubes now which unfortunately was to be expected.
If they now would change to Power coating instead of the wet paint they are using now they could make a huge step to really being premium.
VarioHSDelite
Member
Complete with imitation Court on it:
Changes I noticed:
- headlight mounted up near the bars
- those batteries tho! (though to be honest, i get a lot of "Terminator" comments from the batteries on my Delite)
- shock looks like a different one
- shock definitely at a different angle
- new shock angle seems to give a lot more clearance between the rear fender and the bike rack; mine doesn't sit that high to begin with, let alone having a rider on the bike
Changes I noticed:
- headlight mounted up near the bars
- those batteries tho! (though to be honest, i get a lot of "Terminator" comments from the batteries on my Delite)
- shock looks like a different one
- shock definitely at a different angle
- new shock angle seems to give a lot more clearance between the rear fender and the bike rack; mine doesn't sit that high to begin with, let alone having a rider on the bike
Dmitri
Active Member
Everyone with a Delite had (or should!) remount their Supernova from the fork crown up onto the bike computer, so I'm glad R&M fixed this.
As far as dual-powertube, it is of course welcome but I'd expect them to have done it when they did it for Supercharger... why now, why such a huge delay?
Also, I've heard from one Supercharger user that the covers that go on top of the Supercharger are not that reliable, that person has had to change a cover — twice!
The issue with the Delite is not the clarance between the rack and the wheel, the main issue is the clearance between the rear wheel and the mudguard. There's hardly any space in there so, after you replace the flimsy mudguards that R&M comes with with nice Pletscher 80 ones, you can no longer fit a Wrathchild spiked tire in there.
Personally, I consider the Delite to be almost an ideal bike. It could be made even better with 3.8" tires. I put a 3.8" tire up front (on the Fox 'plus' fork) but I'd love a fat tire in the rear. Then it would be perfect.
But then again, Bosch fighting against derestriction means I'll never buy a Bosch equipped bike. Sad...
As far as dual-powertube, it is of course welcome but I'd expect them to have done it when they did it for Supercharger... why now, why such a huge delay?
Also, I've heard from one Supercharger user that the covers that go on top of the Supercharger are not that reliable, that person has had to change a cover — twice!
The issue with the Delite is not the clarance between the rack and the wheel, the main issue is the clearance between the rear wheel and the mudguard. There's hardly any space in there so, after you replace the flimsy mudguards that R&M comes with with nice Pletscher 80 ones, you can no longer fit a Wrathchild spiked tire in there.
Personally, I consider the Delite to be almost an ideal bike. It could be made even better with 3.8" tires. I put a 3.8" tire up front (on the Fox 'plus' fork) but I'd love a fat tire in the rear. Then it would be perfect.
But then again, Bosch fighting against derestriction means I'll never buy a Bosch equipped bike. Sad...
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Ah, 'smooth welds'. 'Huge improvement.' - glad someone else appreciates that level of aesthetics.
P.s. Can be found also on the Aventon Pace 350 and Pace 500 ebikes.
VarioHSDelite
Member
Some of us didn't even get a Supernova... :-(
This might have made sense for R&M, because the new power tube batteries are 620watt, and are not backwards compatible with the older, 500w model.
Yeah this really sucks actually, because we don't have such silly laws in USA, yet we are forced to reckon with them. Reading Bosch's statement on de-restriction is like a form of propaganda.
lerxst
Member
History is full of examples of manufacturer-forced restrictions being defeated by hackers. It may take some time but I very much doubt Bosch’s restrictions and testing software will be flawless. Someone will crack it eventually. Until then, my 2018 Delite with CX motor is happy to be derestricted 
Dmitri
Active Member
Of course. I'm not surprised they decided to axe a €400 light from their build while continuing to charge exactly the same price for the bike. Cost optimization!
It is my hope that the public votes with their wallet. If it will be possible to derestrict Yamaha then people would go for that. I'd be interested to know if it's possible on the Flyon... then again, Haibike's bikes have a really quirky design, I'm not sure I'd go for one even if I wanted to.
The Delite to me is an example of where we are so close to perfection yet so far from it. The Holy Grail would be a Delite with dual in-tube batteries, Rohloff E-14, Yamaha motor and fat tires. One can dream...
It's not a Bosch issue although they are more open about their ambitions.
Reports from the wild indicate Bafang displays lack the previous hidden menus that allowed for derestriction. Some sellers of tuning dongles openly discourages the latest updates to Shimano systems since the tuning dongles "might no longer work".
The e-bike industry in Europe are collectively behind this. Sorry to say but sooner or later every manufacturer will go this way.
https://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regula...s-for-measures-against-e-bike-tuning-10129213
Best option is to buy a 45 km/h bike. The extra expense for a 45-bike instead of a 25-limited version of the same is not that much. Only drawback is that there are hardly any 45-bikes in the lower price segments.
VarioHSDelite
Member
Yep - cell phones did this same thing over the past decade. At first your phone was unlocked, then it was locked but most manufacturers allowed you to unlock it, then it took a hack to unlock, and now all phones come with the end user being the only person unable to access core functionality.
bradl
Member
The choice for me seems to be more complicated than just pay for the HS version or not. My local R&M dealer is heavily tilted toward HS models but after riding a CX I found I had a very strong preference for it. To get the low-speed dynamics I liked I am stuck on the flats with the lower speed.
VarioHSDelite
Member
Well, back on topic, the new Delite comes with new 2020 Bosch motor, and the HS and CX both output same torque and % from what i understand, so your concern may be mitigated in 2020.
Though this review could be wrong, found here.
Dmitri
Active Member
I've already mentioned this before, but Bosch CX and Bosch Speed (pre-2020) is the same motor, just with different firmware. Yet, for some reason, R&M charged €500 more for the Speed version, which looks like a blatant cash grab.
It's not really an issue to buy a 45kph bike, I can even tolerate the markup. The issue is not even riding it. The issue is crossing international borders. You need, at the very least, to replace the Speed plastic shield with the CX and also replace the certification sticker on the back of the bike for it to masquerade as 45kph.
The great thing about derestriction is that once you remove the BadassBox, your bike becomes road-legal again from the view of any agent that would seek to inspect the bike.
What I find particularly interesting is that, in adapting to new legislation, we see
Now, try this thought experiment: imagine if cars came with a speed limiter. Would that be considered a safety feature or insanity? In practice, cars routinely exceed the speed limit by around 20kph (as matter of norm) yet this is viewed as acceptable margin around baseline values. On the other hand, people are free to drive their cars at 200kph if they want to, and if they kill themselves or others it's entirely their fault. And yet, when it comes to ebikes, we suddenly have these pieces of nonsensical regulation. I don't know, it's all far too artificial.
It's not really an issue to buy a 45kph bike, I can even tolerate the markup. The issue is not even riding it. The issue is crossing international borders. You need, at the very least, to replace the Speed plastic shield with the CX and also replace the certification sticker on the back of the bike for it to masquerade as 45kph.
The great thing about derestriction is that once you remove the BadassBox, your bike becomes road-legal again from the view of any agent that would seek to inspect the bike.
What I find particularly interesting is that, in adapting to new legislation, we see
- No public consultation whatsoever. Ideally you'd expect cycling clubs and societies to be in discussion with EU regulatory bodies.
- No evidence of any actual harm of derestriction on traffic accidents/incidents.
Now, try this thought experiment: imagine if cars came with a speed limiter. Would that be considered a safety feature or insanity? In practice, cars routinely exceed the speed limit by around 20kph (as matter of norm) yet this is viewed as acceptable margin around baseline values. On the other hand, people are free to drive their cars at 200kph if they want to, and if they kill themselves or others it's entirely their fault. And yet, when it comes to ebikes, we suddenly have these pieces of nonsensical regulation. I don't know, it's all far too artificial.
The engine is the same but there are differences on the bikes that might explain the price difference.
Looking at the Supercharger, the price difference is:
- € 290 between GT Touring and GT Touring HS
- € 414 between GH Vario and GH Vario HS
- € 310 between GX Rohloff and GX Rohloff HS
- Rear mirror, about € 20
- Electric horn, guess about the same
- Different brakes (Magura MT4e vs. Shimano Deore) with brake cutoff switches, no idea about price difference
- Different brake light, no idea about price difference
- Different front light (HS), no idea about price difference
The rest I can only guess comes from the additional cots of type approving the HS model, this is not free of charge, and for the additional hassle of administering the CoC.
I don't think this is particularly unfair.
To be honest, how many does this? Most bikes are puchased for commuting and that's it..
It would greatly surprise me if this was not a discussed feature EU-wide within 5 years. There really is no everyday reason at all to exceed speed limits.
D
Deleted member 18083
Guest
To change the subject a bit…
The 2019 image is of the 49 cm Delite, the smallest size but still a big brute of a bike!
To me it appears that the 2020 model (whatever size it might be) offers better (meaning lower) standover height. Now that's an improvement!
Spoiler alert: as already noted in post #3, the 2020 model is carrying an 'imitation Court' (a wry comment, indeed), so the sag from the full-suspension Control Technology might account for the difference.
… David
The 2019 image is of the 49 cm Delite, the smallest size but still a big brute of a bike!
To me it appears that the 2020 model (whatever size it might be) offers better (meaning lower) standover height. Now that's an improvement!
Spoiler alert: as already noted in post #3, the 2020 model is carrying an 'imitation Court' (a wry comment, indeed), so the sag from the full-suspension Control Technology might account for the difference.
… David
Last edited by a moderator:
Dmitri
Active Member
Look at the motor clearance in the above pictures; I don't believe R&M would push the motor lower, it's already very prone to pedal strikes as it is. I suspect the geometry is identical in both cases.
This would also explain the angle of the rear shock; then again, its placement is different.
This would also explain the angle of the rear shock; then again, its placement is different.
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