Motor differences, physical or software.

[EdC]

Are the power differences in performance and active line motors caused by physical differences or are they software driven?

 

[Dallant]

Probably both but that’s just a guess. The firmware update to my PLCX supposedly raised the torque from 75 to 85Nm. I also assume that the internals have to be beefier in the PL series to handle that torque increase and the higher performance expectations for that series of motors.

 

[rich c]

Which generation of motors are you asking about? Most of the Active line motors weigh 6.3 pounds and two of the Performance line weigh 7.1 pounds. But there is active line, active line plus, performance line cruise and speed, and performance line CX. Also cargo line and cargo line plus. Hopefully @Ravi Kempaiah will chime in. https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/products/drive-units/

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

physical differences or are they software driven?

As you can see below, there are both hardware and software differences.
The hardware difference accounts for higher current through the motor thereby resulting in higher torque and assist.
The software difference controls the max rpm support.

 

[EdC]

As you can see below, there are both hardware and software differences.
The hardware difference accounts for higher current through the motor thereby resulting in higher torque and assist.
The software difference controls the max rpm support.

View attachment 69516

 

[EdC]

Bosch was able to substantially boost the torque on its performance motors with a software fix. No hardware changes were necessary. Maybe the torque differences on all their motors can be attributed to software not hardware. Build a motor that simply use software changes to make it appear there are different motors at different prices. Possible?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Bosch was able to substantially boost the torque on its performance motors with a software fix.

This was done only for the Performance CX and Speed motors not the performance line cruise motors (Gen 3) or the active line plus motors ( Gen 3).

 

[McCorby]

Bosch was able to substantially boost the torque on its performance motors with a software fix. No hardware changes were necessary. Maybe the torque differences on all their motors can be attributed to software not hardware. Build a motor that simply use software changes to make it appear there are different motors at different prices. Possible?

I don’t understand what your trying to get to here??? Ravi’s post above clearly shows the motors are physically not the same. An Active Line motor is not physically capable of producing the same torque as the Performance line.

Also, why did you start another thread on this same subject?

 

[McCorby]

They could de-rate the Performance Line to Active Line power levels. I’m not sure what the value would be though. I’m guessing the Performance Line costs more to manufacture than the Active Line.

On the other hand, Orbea just introduced a new MTB with a de-rated Shimano EP8 motor. I believe one of the reasons they did this was to be able to use a smaller battery in order to reduce weight. De-rating the motor allows them to be able to use a smaller battery without significantly impacting range.

 

[Solar Roller]

I haven't seen anything that suggests a hardware difference between the Gen 2 Cx and Speed motors. I have two bikes, one Cx and one Speed, and both motors weigh the same, sound the same, and pedal the same. Only difference is at what speed they cut out.

Gen 3 Active Line and Active Line Plus could very well be software difference only. Haven't pulled a Gen 3 Performance Line to know.

Gen 4 Cx and Speed motors are physically different internally. They have different gearing. The increase to 85 Nm on the Gen 4 motors was purely software, but they were probably designed from the start to handle 85 Nm, just limited at the start to make sure they held together in the real world.