Looking for recommendations: commuter ebike for 1 mile 10% grade

[Jeff Bachant]

Apologies in advance as I'm sure this must be covered in various place here.

I am looking for recommendations for an ebike with sufficient assist to help me with a commute that has an ~1 mile 10% (average) grade.

I am 58, in reasonable shape (could better for sure), about 220 lbs. The total commute is only 5 miles one way for me, but the going up part comes at the end of my ride going home. I don't mind pedaling and working with the bike. I can still do the hill on my regular mountain bike frame with slicks that I've used for years. But, time is catching up and my knees are complaining. My overall goal for the bike would be to get me back bike commuting more regularly, which I enjoy. I live in the Riverside, CA area so there are a fair number of bike dealers near me.

I'm hoping to keep within a budget of 3000 dollars. I've done some online reading, largely focused on the Trek Verve 3+ for a mid mount motor and the Aventon Level for a rear mount. I am not wedded to either of these bikes, but they are brands repped near me. I can take the bikes out and give them a tootle around the dealer parking lot, but its not like I can take them home and give them a test ride up the hill. And of course one sees a range of views casting around online.

And so that is what prompts my question. From reading I simply don't have a sense of how much assist I can expect from, say, a 250 watt mid mount motor versus a 500 watt rear mount. I was hoping for some real world input from somebody whose commute might involve the same type of reasonably intense (for me) climb coming at the end of the day.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

I did find this thread on this site that is along the same lines as my query: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/first-e-bike-for-commuting-with-steep-roads.47640/.

From a mechanical standpoint, there seems to be a possible consensus that a mid mount motor amplifies your own pedaling power more effectively and so may be a better performer for hill climbing. And hills may place stress on the chain/motor with a rear hub configuration. But with a 250 W mid mount motor it still comes a question of with 1 mile 10% grade do you labor some but it's overall easier or can you now sail right up? And for a rear mount, the idea of being able to easily do 28 mph on the flats to get back and forth quickly does have appeal.

Thanks again.

 

[fooferdoggie]

the active line would mean you would work a fair amount. you really need the performance line motor then it would not be a problem. that long of a steep limb is not great for a hub drive.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

the active line would mean you would work a fair amount. you really need the performance line motor then it would not be a problem. that long of a steep limb is not great for a hub drive.

Thank you. The difference is primarily in the maximum torque? 35 Nm (active) vs 65 Nm (performance) if I'm looking at it right.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

Anybody have experience with this brand? https://rizebikes.com/products/city-md

They appear to offer a 750 watt mid mount motor configuration in the 2K price range.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Thank you. The difference is primarily in the maximum torque? 35 Nm (active) vs 65 Nm (performance) if I'm looking at it right.

the performance line is 85nm if it is a gen 4 bosch. but I have done it on 63 too. we have climbed 5 miles with a lot of 10% grades on our bosch e tandem.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

the performance line is 85nm if it is a gen 4 bosch. but I have done it on 63 too. we have climbed 5 miles with a lot of 10% grades on our bosch e tandem.

well, that sounds like it does the job. Now I guess I need to find bikes that come equipped with that type of motor configuration...

 

[fooferdoggie]

well, that sounds like it does the job. Now I guess I need to find bikes that come equipped with that type of motor configuration...

thats not hard but your price it may be.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

thats not hard but your price it may be.

Yes...so it appears. Any experience or thoughts on Bafang vs Bosch for the motor? Thanks for you input.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Yes...so it appears. Any experience or thoughts on Bafang vs Bosch for the motor? Thanks for you input.

I have only ridden bosch. myself Bosch's torque sensing is going to be much better and the reliability is higher with better batteries at a price though. but you will get the most range on a bosch powered bike and les weight. but they cost more too. it would also depend on if you can do the work needed or want dealer support.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

I'm kind of handy but for something, say, like bleeding and refilling hydraulic brake lines, I'm more and more inclined to take it in. Part of it is just time.

I'm seeing something like the Trek Powerfly. Its more $$$ for sure and it's moving into a heavier mountain bike frame (not that I mind that so much, although a step through would be nice). It looks like it would have that Bosch Performance Line drive. I've used Trek bikes at various times over the years and feel they are well made and reliable. But I'm not so interested in off road.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

What about the Trek Allant 7+. I'd have to bump my budget up but it would have a mid mount Bosch Performance Line CX 250 Watt, 85 Nm motor. I'm not sure how that corresponds to the Bosch generation 4 motor mentioned above, but it seems to be a popular bike. How do people think that might hold up to a mile long climb?

 

[fooferdoggie]

What about the Trek Allant 7+. I'd have to bump my budget up but it would have a mid mount Bosch Performance Line CX 250 Watt, 85 Nm motor. I'm not sure how that corresponds to the Bosch generation 4 motor mentioned above, but it seems to be a popular bike. How do people think that might hold up to a mile long climb?

the cx great for climbing though it cuts out at 19mph

 

[Jeff Bachant]

If I got up that hill at 20 mph I'd feel like I was 20 years old again!

If I have it straight for the allant bikes that is the difference between 7+ and 7s+ (or 8+ vs 8s+), the CX versus speed motors, with the speed going up to 28 mph but putting out less torque. I suppose gear ratios would matter....quite complicated, lots of information, lots of bikes.

 

[fooferdoggie]

If I got up that hill at 20 mph I'd feel like I was 20 years old again!

If I have it straight for the allant bikes that is the difference between 7+ and 7s+ (or 8+ vs 8s+), the CX versus speed motors, with the speed going up to 28 mph but putting out less torque. I suppose gear ratios would matter....quite complicated, lots of information, lots of bikes.

they both put out 85nm but the cx is geared to put it out at lower speeds for climbing. the difference I ahve found on my 8 before the motor was upgraded when it went from 75 to 85 nm. climbing a 22% grade I could only put out 450 watts and spend only 30 rpm. 85nm let me spin at 60 rpms and Could do 540 watts.

 

[Jeff Bachant]

8 meaning the Allant 8? On a 22% grade that's impressive! So (as I'm learning more) that's 540 peak watts-something like 36 volts and a 15 amp controller with the CX motor? Since the motor itself is 250 watt continuous, does it tend to get pretty hot on a long climb?

 

[BikingSoCal]

85 nm on a Bosch performance line is not bad especially if you are in decent shape. You do have to work, is not a motorcycle.
20 MPH? not for me. I would be happy to do 15-16 mph with a 10 degree incline. I am 63 and in decent shape. Also have been commuting to work since March 2021 with that setup having to climb a very steep hill on my way to work in the morning.
Love my commute.
Also form SoCal like you.

 

[fooferdoggie]

8 meaning the Allant 8? On a 22% grade that's impressive! So (as I'm learning more) that's 540 peak watts-something like 36 volts and a 15 amp controller with the CX motor? Since the motor itself is 250 watt continuous, does it tend to get pretty hot on a long climb?

Ya the alant 8 I put out 540 watts. I maxed out what the bike did but you dont know what that is exactly since the 250 watts is nominal not peak. but man I worked my butt off doing that. I did that hill on my bulls bike with the gen 2 bosch motor too. but I could not get my cadence up to 60 for the most power. I can do 18% for a couple blocks now in eco I used to max out the bosch motor power doing that hill then the software upgrade now I have some left in the tank. I doubt you can overheat a bosch motor. only if you max it out maybe for a long time? but that took me able to put out 540 watts myself and that takes a really steep hill unless yo can go faster. You would need to be a really strong rider too maintain 500 or so watts long enough to test it.

 

[BikingSoCal]

For hill climbing I have a cadence of around 80. That seems like a sweet spot for me. (85 nm Bosch motor)

 

[fooferdoggie]

I should explain how I tested the motor. first find a really steep hill around 18% worked. before I updated my motor going up the steep hill and putting out 450 watts (I have a nyon) and peddling from 70 to 80 rpms. I changed assist levels and could nto find any difference between them. when I got my motor updated. so far I only maxed out on there 22% hill I do a short 18% hill every day and I will see if I can get 540 watts out and go faster. but I cant always manage 540 watts. I ahve done a few 600 to 700 watt packs when starting out but that only lasts for a very short time. here is my test hill.