Looking for a new bike, stromer st2 or...???

[RemyS]

Hi guys,
I am a 39 years old guy from Geneva, Switzerland, and I'm looking to buy a new bike. My current one, a flyer that is like 8 years old would require me to put money in it (a new battery and a few small things), and I am not sure that it's worth it. My usual way to the office is 12.5 kms each way so 25 kms a day, mostly flat, but I sometimes do a few more if I go eat lunch in the city center. I might also need to a few more kms if I live somewhere else, but it probably won't happen this year, maybe afterwards. So I'm looking at something that let me easily do 40-45 kms for a few years.

With my current bike, that is a bit old and with a not so great battery, I can usually be at like 35-37 if it's flat and I've enough battery remaining, not really more. I tried stromer bikes, and I've to admit that even if it doesn't change a lot of time on 15 kms or so, I'd much rather have the possibility to go at 42-45kms if I can. Now I need to decide if I really buy one, which model, or an alternative, and that's where I need your help If I buy something now I'd go for a 2018 model probably , with a 15-20% discount (or more if I can find, didn't so far). For now my main options are:

- a Stromer ST2, the fact he's more powerful and have some better components than the st1x seems good, but I'm not sure it's worth the price difference (and going over my budget, which if possible wouldn''t have been more than 5'000 chf). I can get one with a 814 for about 5800chf.
- A stromer ST1 x, 2018, with a 618 battery, for about 4700chf. It got less power than the st2, components are not as good I think, but it might be enough for me. (I'll probably be able to borrow both for 1 day to see if it really makes a difference). But I am really unsure that the 618 battery is enough and they don't have it with a 814 (maybe in another store but didn''t find yet). However if there is not much difference with the ST2, if I need to buy another battery in 2-3 years because that one wouldn't be enough anymore, it's ok as it's much cheaper now (and I prefer to spread the expense).
- I can get in another shop a ST1x for the same price with a 814 battery, but it's a 2017. I am a bit worried that the battery wouldn't be as efficient (I heard different things about the fact a battery lose some capacity or not while not being used yet), but they would maybe sell it with a brand new battery. Is the "I get a older model but a bigger battery" a good trade? Not that sure about it...
- Or of course, I could get something else than a Stromer. It might mean a better fiability (it seems stromer isn't the best for this), maybe some better components, and a bit cheaper, but I'd lose some power (what I tried with a Bosch engine was rather going at 38 than 43 on the same way) , and I find Stromer more fun and nicer. My current option for this might be a Diamant Zouma + (https://www.veloland-shop.ch/2018/12914-zouma-s-18.html ), which seems to be like a different branding of the trek super commuter 8+ and 99% the same. I tried it, it's a good bike, but I don't feel such a big difference from my old bike, even if it could be a good choice.

So, what should I do?

Thanks in advance for your advice !

Rémy

 

[JRA]

I get the feeling you are happier with the Stromer hub drive system over the mid-drive type so that is a big consideration. Also the mid drive Diamant only has a 500wh battery which I don't think will meet your speed/range requirements over time.

Wh/km is the equivalent to MPG, or kmPG I suppose there, and to arrive at what your average speed can be over your terrain you divide wh use by distance traveled. So for your projected route of 25kms per day a 500wh battery would work but not give you the extra range that you would like to use at times or in the future and also as the battery degrades over time as you have experienced, or you decide to do the 20-80% charging routine to extend battery life, it would not be enough. Either the 618wh, somewhat lighter overall bike weight being the main advantage, would be enough for all you needs and the 814wh battery would exceed your requirements but also expand your horizons which you may find useful going forward.

Your plan to demo the bikes for the day will give you a better perspective of what feels best and also perhaps the right shop for support after your purchase that will alleviate your viability issues.

 

[Ebiker01]

I get the feeling you are happier with the Stromer hub drive system over the mid-drive type so that is a big consideration. Also the mid drive Diamant only has a 500wh battery which I don't think will meet your speed/range requirements over time.

Wh/km is the equivalent to MPG, or kmPG I suppose there, and to arrive at what your average speed can be over your terrain you divide wh use by distance traveled. So for your projected route of 25kms per day a 500wh battery would work but not give you the extra range that you would like to use at times or in the future and also as the battery degrades over time as you have experienced, or you decide to do the 20-80% charging routine to extend battery life, it would not be enough. Either the 618wh, somewhat lighter overall bike weight being the main advantage, would be enough for all you needs and the 814wh battery would exceed your requirements but also expand your horizons which you may find useful going forward.

Your plan to demo the bikes for the day will give you a better perspective of what feels best and also perhaps the right shop for support after your purchase that will alleviate your viability issues.

I would go with any of the Bulls e bike that have the Supercore 759wh pack or the Bh easy motion xstep cross with 720wh.
If Stromers wouldn’t have had their occasionally failures I would have gone with the St2, St1x will be far behind in 1-2years. And selling them then would mean a 50% discount. I know of at least 2 brand new St2s for 5.5k from originally 9k !

 

[RemyS]

Thanks for your answers.
For the hub drive vs mid drive, I think I don't care much where the engine is, and how it works. I felt it was more "powerful and quickly useful" than the Bosch one. As I said I was going like 4-5 kms/h faster. But also in traffic, with the stromer I had a bus starting to go (in the line I was about to use), I was able to quickly go from 33 to 40km/h or so, I think such things can be useful when you're in traffic with other faster cars/busses etc.

For the "how many kms with the battery", I actually think the 500w of the Bosch might give me more kms than the 618 of the stromer (if I go for the lower priced st1x), because it seems the stromer use more of the battery, because of the most powerful engine.

And I've no clue what are these "Bulls e bike" but I'll take a look Are there other bikes (not more expensive of course) that are as fast as the stromers?

 

[RemyS]

I've sent you an internal message with some suggestions. I didn't want to post it here because it's very Swiss-specific with talk of local models & prices, 5 year Flyer warrantees, drive systems that aren't even available in the US (e.g. Panasonic X1 multi-speed drive), and bikes with no US dealers (Klever, Flyer, Swiss Canyon). Hope you don't mind.

Wow, thanks a lot for your so kind and detailed message. I looked on google for most of these bikes if I didn't know them. But I think that I kinda make my mind to buy a Stromer, because I didn't heard about other bikes that can really reach it's 45km/h speed, and I think it's what I really want. I could be wrong if some of the ones on the list JayVee send me actually go that fast, but I already spent a lot of time looking online about these bikes, I've gone to some shops... as some point, I need to make a decision, and I can't go in 10 shops try 20 bikes either (and I don't want to make all the lovely people in these shops work for nothing ).

So now, I think I only need to choose if I buy a ST2 or a ST1x (but I don't have a great offer on a 2018 ST1x with a 814 battery, only a 2017). I think I'll go for the ST2 with a 814 that I can buy with a 20% discount (don't find anything better in Switzerland), but I'll try it tomorrow, I can use both for one day. I'll also need to choose between a 20' or 22', I'm about 1m88 so should be able to use both, but I feel I am more confortable on the 20 (I used a 20 for a few minutes, but only sat on a 22'). I just need to make sure that spending about 1000chf to take a ST2 and not a ST1x is a good idea .

 

[RemyS]

Ok. I tried the ST2 today. I actually had two problems during this, first the guy at the shop did a mistake with the captor, it was brand new, and it means the moro wasn't on. Had to ride to a meeting, wasn't so fun without an engine Then on my way home the pedal fell off (could have been dangerous but nothing happen), the mechanician from the shop came and fixed it, I was told sometimes it can happen on a new bike. Doesn't seem great, but I won't hold these two things against the bike or them.
But I really like the bike, I'll buy that (I'll get a suspension seat post included I think, like this: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) ), it seems to be exactly what I want, it is nice, and I prefer to buy the best of the 2 versions, than to save some money now and to maybe regret my choice later on.
The only thing is I tried the 20' and I was pretty good in it, they don't have the 22 yet and I would prefer not to wait, but that's a detail.

 

[RemyS]

I can't really say, as I didn't use it much. I really like the idea of having something pretty fast and not many other bikes can do this, it seems to be pretty good bikes apart the engine (I wouldn't pay that much if it was fast but had too many problems), I like the fact that it's quite connected (even if it's probably pretty not needed at all) and nice. Here it seems that I could get a "cheap" 45km/h bike for 3500chf, a pretty good one for 4500, and that ST2 was about 1000chf more. I feel that premium is probably a bit too much, but I was willing to pay in anyway. Preferred that than paying less to save that 1K, and regret it later.
Also, Stromer being a Swiss brand probably means it cost more to produce (even if I don't really know what is really done here), as we've get pretty much the highest salaries in the world.

 

[fxr3]

I just bought another st2. They are being replaced by the bigger wheeled st3 and st5. I’ve put a lot of miles on st2’s in the last 4 years trouble free and above 25mph. I also had a 45kmh bulls and emotion in the last 2 years. Both were impossible for me to comfortably maintain speeds above 25mph. People have complained about Stromer reliability on these forums, but I think problems are not common( from my experience). At 59 years old with bad heart and knees- the stromers have proven without a doubt to maintain speeds above 25mph and equally important they feel comfortable at those speeds.

 

[RemyS]

Thanks for the feedback.
I am using mine even a bit more than I thought, did a bit more than 300kms in 2 weeks, going to the office with it Everyday even with bad weather. It's fast, fun and useful, couldn't ask for more (apart being cheaper and having a real way to lock it from the app ).

 

[fxr3]

Thanks for the feedback.
I am using mine even a bit more than I thought, did a bit more than 300kms in 2 weeks, going to the office with it Everyday even with bad weather. It's fast, fun and useful, couldn't ask for more (apart being cheaper and having a real way to lock it from the app ).

Oh good, you bought one! I won’t bother my opinion in outfitting it- but remember the Omni lock only prevents people from riding off with bike.
Most Harley’s are stolen by throwing them n back of truck or van.

 

[MikeDee]

Stromers are works of art.