Kitting out a new Vado

[Sierratim]

Is it possible to run tubeless on the Vados?

It's certainly possible. I've never run tubeless tires, but my 2 youngest sons have used them for maybe 15 years. At first it was a struggle for them but advances in tires and sealants have made it pretty straight forward to convert. What they tell me is:

The standard tires, Trigger Sports, are not rated for tubeless use so you'd want to change these out to avoid air leaks through the casing. Some sealants claim to address this, but don't believe it.

The rims will need tubeless sealant tape to make the spoke nipples air tight. Some users report good results with Gorilla brand tape as well.

The valve stem will need to be changed out to tubeless versions that seal against the rim.

You'll want to use a brand name sealant.

To initially seal the tire bead to the rim you'll need an air compressor or a 'boost' style pump that can provide very high air flow to get the bead to seal.

Finally, you'll want to carry a tubeless tire repair/plug kit for larger punctures.

Both of my mountain biking sons report excellent results adapting modern wheels to tubeless use. They like the minimal flats they get but agree that tubeless tires aren't perfect. They both carry repair/plug kits and would suggest spare tubes for multi-day trips. They caution that you can't simply put a tube in a tubeless setup, you first have to inspect the tire and remove the (many) thorns, glass shards, etc that have punctured the tire but were sealed off by the sealant.

As a final point, you will need to add fresh sealant to each tire every few months to be sure you have liquid sealant available to seal off punctures.

So, yes it can be done. The benefits depend on your riding conditions and style. My sons swear by tubeless; I'm fine fixing an ocassional flat under a shade tree.

BTW - After my call re this topic, both sons offered to help me catch up with modern bike tech by converting my Vado to tubeless. I lovingly declined.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Is it possible to run tubeless on the Vados?

I don't know. Deacon, what are the main benefits from using tubeless tires?

 

[Sierratim]

I don't know. Deacon, what are the main benefits from using tubeless tires?

I think the main advantage most users are after is that many punctures in tubeless tires are self sealing. No flats. No trail side repairs, all subject to my earlier caveats.

Mountain bikers are always looking for more traction under adverse conditions. One popular approach to this is to run tires at very low pressures. This makes them prone to pinching the tire against the rim when hitting a hard object (rock, etc). With tubes this causes the infamous 'snake bite' flat with twin tube punctures on nearly opposite edges of the tube making a patch generally useless. Tubeless tires avoid this problem and roll on at these low pressures with minimal problems.

There is also a weight savings that is generally in the range of 1/2lb per tire. This doesn't sound like much, but since this weight savings in at the outer circumference of the wheel it makes a noticeable difference in the energy it takes to accelerate, esp important in a race where your speed varies a lot (think mountain biking).

These are such important issues for mountain bikers that my sons tell me that nearly all of the student competitors on the local high school cross country mountain bike team they help coach are using tubeless tires. This apparently is the tend across the entire northern state league of these teams comprising thousands of riders. Amazing

Of course there's the all important cool factor; tubeless tires are better because they've got the most tech, all reinforced with brightly colored logos on the tires!

 

[Johnny]

Maybe a good tip. Like you I was an early adopter, getting in on the Kickstarter campaign and getting an early model that I still use on my road bike since it's so compact (fits in a jersey pocket). I did notice that they now sell it as prevention for "crimes of opportunity," which pretty much covers my intended usage. I do have a couple of older cable locks, but they would also easily succumb to a determined thief, although I do trust their locking mechanisms more than the Ottolock which I've also found a bit finicky.

Since weight is not a big issue with the Vado, and since hearing your experience, I might go in the cable direction instead

Please don't get me wrong but being compact only makes sense if it works.

Cut in 2 secs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I think the main advantage most users are after is that many punctures in tubeless tires are self sealing.

Thank you @Sierratim for the detailed answer! That clarified the things really.

Well, competitive cycling and MTB is another world. As I ride mostly roads (the worst of them being muddy country roads or forest paths on occasion), I inflate my tyres to the maximum for less rolling resistance and to avoid the "snake bite" you mentioned (I'm also a heavy person). I trust puncture-resistant tyres such as Schwalbe Marathon e-Plus. So while the tubeless tires are certainly great for sport and off-road, I think I stay with the tubes.

 

[Sierratim]

Thank you @Sierratim for the detailed answer! That clarified the things really.

Well, competitive cycling and MTB is another world. As I ride mostly roads (the worst of them being muddy country roads or forest paths on occasion), I inflate my tyres to the maximum for less rolling resistance and to avoid the "snake bite" you mentioned (I'm also a heavy person). I trust puncture-resistant tyres such as Schwalbe Marathon e-Plus. So while the tubeless tires are certainly great for sport and off-road, I think I stay with the tubes.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[linklemming]

Couldn't agree more!

Another simple option is to run sealant in your tubes(I use stans). Alot less mess than running tubeless and you dont have to constantly air up your tires like you do with tubeless. I usually go over a month before having to add air.

I ran tubeless on my MTBs for years and just find it easier with sealant in the tubes.

 

[rochrunner]

After installing my pedals today, my Vado 4.0 is fully "kitted out" for the time being. Here's a photo of it on a ride I took about a week ago (hard to keep track of time these days):

The bag is an Arkel "Tailrider" mounted to a Snap-It adapter for the Racktime rack. My pedals are now Shimano PD-EH500s with one side SPD and the other flat with pins installed:

I was all set to do battle with a pedal wrench, but the standard pedals can only be removed using a hex key from the back side of the crank arms (no flats for a pedal wrench). What surprised me was that they seemed to have been installed barely finger tight! Oh well, no harm done.

 

[Sierratim]

After installing my pedals today, my Vado 4.0 is fully "kitted out" for the time being. Here's a photo of it on a ride I took about a week ago (hard to keep track of time these days):

View attachment 48759

The bag is an Arkel "Tailrider" mounted to a Snap-It adapter for the Racktime rack. My pedals are now Shimano PD-EH500s with one side SPD and the other flat with pins installed:

View attachment 48760

View attachment 48761

I was all set to do battle with a pedal wrench, but the standard pedals can only be removed using a hex key from the back side of the crank arms (no flats for a pedal wrench). What surprised me was that they seemed to have been installed barely finger tight! Oh well, no harm done.

This is why pedals have left & right hand threads; they both tighten rather than loosen with a forward pedal stroke. Loose pedals are a bad thing!

 

[Saratoga Dave]

As I learned last Fall after a sick tech at the bike shop mistakenly mixed up my pedals. That was a pleasant walk out of the woods after the right pedal fell out, completely stripped. Poor Steve was horrified at the error, but he’d been sick as a dog at the time. Oh well.

 

[Sierratim]

As I learned last Fall after a sick tech at the bike shop mistakenly mixed up my pedals. That was a pleasant walk out of the woods after the right pedal fell out, completely stripped. Poor Steve was horrified at the error, but he’d been sick as a dog at the time. Oh well.

WOW! He had to have really cranked on the reverse threaded pedals to make them cut new threads. Not all brands are marked, but my Shimano EH-500's are clearly stamped 'R' and 'L' to help get on the correct side of the bike the first time. The few times I've gotten in a hurry and mixed pedals up I've never been able to get the threads started quickly pointing out my mistake. Luckily you weren't hurt?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Your bike is suspiciously clean, @rochrunner
Many happy miles!

 

[rochrunner]

Your bike is suspiciously clean, @rochrunner
Many happy miles!

It had about 5 miles on it at that time, but I always keep my bikes as clean as possible. It's been commented on a few times in the crowd that I often ride with.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

My pedals were and are Origin 8s, and they have the little R and L stamped right on them. I felt a weird little wobble in the right pedal and within a couple of hundred feet it was on the ground and the left one was loose.

The threads on the pedals were fine... I still use them. It tore the threads right out of the cranks. I tried sticking a small piece of a tree branch in the crank hole to get me back to the car, but that didn’t go so well.

 

[Sierratim]

My pedals were and are Origin 8s, and they have the little R and L stamped right on them. I felt a weird little wobble in the right pedal and within a couple of hundred feet it was on the ground and the left one was loose.

The threads on the pedals were fine... I still use them. It tore the threads right out of the cranks. I tried sticking a small piece of a tree branch in the crank hole to get me back to the car, but that didn’t go so well.

Yep, the cranks are typically aluminum, the pedal threaded shaft hardened steel. The softer cranks didn't stand a chance when the pedals were force fit. I assume you had to replace your cranks? They do make coil steel inserts that can sometimes repair damaged threads but yours sound like they were too far gone for this fix. Hope your walk back wasn't too far!

 

[Saratoga Dave]

By the way, that whole thing sort of hijacked the thread, for which I apologize. That Vado looks terrific. Nice double style pedals, too!

Really nice bike.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

1. Pedals: I use the Shimano two-sided ones, a wise choice;
2. Mirrycle. Because my Vado is treated as a moped, I use two mirrors for increased safety. Properly tightened screws and the Mirrycle is a miracle. The mirror folds on a bike fall or any collision. My Vado fell for several times and both Mirrycles hold. $11 apiece on Amazon.
3. I got the women Myth Sport saddle with Vado and I'm very happy with it. I use the Respiro on the other e-bike of mine. Regarding the seat-post, I'm waiting to get the new PNW Coast suspension dropper post to be installed.
4. Bottle cage: In case of the step-over frame it is OK. Unluckily, the step-through frame of my Vado makes the bottle cage impractical: very hard to remove the battery or re-insert it because of lack of space.
5. I use a smartphone mount, no Garmin.
6. Racktime rack. I advice to not use any of Racktime accessories. Ortlieb panniers fit the Racktime very well without any hassle. I recommend the Ortlieb E-Mate which is also good for the spare battery.
7. I carry accessories, tools and spares in the Ortlieb E-Mate pannier.
8. Cannot help you with any advice. I carry a Kryptonite in the pannier.
9. Why to replace the fantastic grips of the Vado?

I am curious why you don’t like Racktime bags. I was going to buy one for my bike this spring. They look well designed and fit the rack perfectly.

 

[rochrunner]

I am curious why you don’t like Racktime bags. I was going to buy one for my bike this spring. They look well designed and fit the rack perfectly.

All the ones I saw were bigger than what I was looking for -- more for touring or something -- and not cheap. I wanted a lower-profile bag and had owned the Arkel bag for several years without ever using it. So it was a much cheaper and more satisfying DIY solution to just buy the adapter and mount my existing bag.

I noticed that some of the latest Trek e-bikes now have Racktime racks instead of the usual proprietary Bontrager racks. So maybe Bontrager will start offering their own Racktime-compatible line.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am curious why you don’t like Racktime bags. I was going to buy one for my bike this spring. They look well designed and fit the rack perfectly.

I don't like the Racktime Tour Box. The thing is made of thin ABS and it is made very poorly. Since the box wall easily bends, it is hard to even close the lid! The capacity of the box is very small. The whole thing reminds me some hipster stuff of no practical use. It was so bad I've never used the box on the ride.

On contrary, I fell in love in Ortlieb panniers which are veary easy to mount and dismount on any rear rack, are roomy, equipped with many extra accessories you can buy (for example, Commuter Inserts, Ultimate Camera Insert) and you can carry them on your arm when taken off the rack. Especially, the Ortlieb E-Mate pannier is elegant and popular.

The Vado's Racktime rear rack is the narrow one. Using panniers makes it impossible to attach any box or bag on the top of the rack without an extra adapter. So I said "no, thank you very much" to Racktime accessories, boxes, bags or panniers. I own two ebikes and use my Ortlieb panniers alternately on both of them.

Ortlieb E-Mate pannier (the "petrol" colour one) and Ortlieb Back Roller Plus with Commuter Inserts (the yellow-green one) on my Vado. I store a heavy full-frame camera and several lenses in the E-Mate; the camera is positioned the way I can "unclick" the pannier flap with my left hand and take the camera out when I'm still straddling the frame of the Vado (or sitting on the saddle lowered with the dropper seat-post). The Back Roller Plus with Commuter Inserts holds a spare battery, two water bottles, a tripod (in two parts), snacks and a lot of spare clothing as well as bike tools.

My Good Ole Mule fitted with the very same panniers. In case of need, I can replace the E-Mate with the second Back Roller Plus, this time filled with the Ortlieb Ultimate Camera Insert.