Hydrogen bikes?

[briiian]

pragma industries' alpha model is a powerful hydrogen-fueled bike

pragma industries has designed the first commercial-grade fuel cell pedelec, αlpha, integrating the OCS fuel cell technology.

www.designboom.com

Light mobility –H2bike – Pragma Industries

Pragma decided to develop the 1st homologated and mass-produced H2 electric bike to position itself in favor of energy transition & light mobility.

www.pragma-industries.com

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Sooooo many questions. For starters, what happens when you crash?

 

[rich c]

Sooooo many questions. For starters, what happens when you crash?

No more dangerous than an explosive battery pack between your legs.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

No more dangerous than an explosive battery pack between your legs.

How do you know that?

 

[briiian]

Sooooo many questions. For starters, what happens when you crash?

You just pull into your local bike shop, and ask them to fix your hydrogen-powered bike!

 

[JRA]

This concept was actually floated (sic) years ago when the first wave of interest in motor assisted bikes occurred. Never went anywhere and my prediction is that it will flame out again.

 

[scrambler]

The questions I would have are:

• For the same capacity (Wh), how does the weight of a regular Lithium battery compares to the eight of the fuel cell and the hydrogen tank?
  On a car, this is a non issue, but on an e-bike, that could be more significant.
• What is the amount of hydrogen you carry for an equivalent of 1000Wh (how many Wh do you get with the 2l on board)?
• Can you buy Hydrogen canisters to refill, or are you bound to hydrogen fueling stations?

 

[m@Robertson]

Well, if you read the manufacturer's web site, they say this is for fleet and enterprise use which is the only way any hydrogen powered system can make sense. You have to go to the expense of an in-house filling station (and figure out who is trucking in your bulk liquid hydrogen) because there is no public infrastructure to support the technology and none on the horizon.

The pressurized hydrogen canister in the bike is not so much the safety issue as is the hydrogen filling stations, which only exist in California in the USA. Pragma is a French company, and there are only 29 filling stations in that whole country.

Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales

A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway. The massive blast triggered airbags to go off in nearby cars.

insideevs.com

Hydrogen is no longer under serious consideration by manufacturers catering to the mass consumer market. Who here has seen a Toyota Mirai on the road?

Study confirms what common sense has made clear for years: Hydrogen fuel cells cannot catch up to battery-electric vehicles

A new study published in the peer-reviewed journal Nature has confirmed what common sense has made clear for years: Hydrogen...

electrek.co

The extraction and filling process is quite complex vs. BEVs.

 

[Rexlion]

At least hydrogen ebikes should be light weight....

 

[mschwett]

Well, if you read the manufacturer's web site, they say this is for fleet and enterprise use which is the only way any hydrogen powered system can make sense. You have to go to the expense of an in-house filling station (and figure out who is trucking in your bulk liquid hydrogen) because there is no public infrastructure to support the technology and none on the horizon.

The pressurized hydrogen canister in the bike is not so much the safety issue as is the hydrogen filling stations, which only exist in California in the USA. Pragma is a French company, and there are only 29 filling stations in that whole country.

Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales

A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway. The massive blast triggered airbags to go off in nearby cars.

insideevs.com

Hydrogen is no longer under serious consideration by manufacturers catering to the mass consumer market. Who here has seen a Toyota Mirai on the road?

Study confirms what common sense has made clear for years: Hydrogen fuel cells cannot catch up to battery-electric vehicles

A new study published in the peer-reviewed journal Nature has confirmed what common sense has made clear for years: Hydrogen...

electrek.co

The extraction and filling process is quite complex vs. BEVs.

i don’t disagree at all with the issues facing hydrogen - but i will say that i see mirais and the fuel cell honda clarity on the road every single day, usually a couple a day. similar to battery electric 10 years ago, maybe. but BEV seems to be the future.

 

[rich c]

How do you know that?

Same way you wonder about crashing with a hydrogen cell I guess. I've seen videos of battery packs on fire shooting burning cells all over the place. I've also read engineering papers on hydrogen powered cars and the extent they go to protect the hydrogen tank in case of a crash. Battery packs have a layer of plastic over them.

 

[m@Robertson]

i see mirais and the fuel cell honda clarity on the road every single day, usually a couple a day. similar to battery electric 10 years ago, maybe. but BEV seems to be the future.

Yes but you are in one of only three metro areas in the entire United States that have ANY hydrogen refueling stations. Here is the federal map of same. Look for the blue dots. Here is the map location so you can confirm this is the sole island in the USA with filling stations:

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

If you live almost anywhere else in the USA, even in the state of CA, the number of Mirais its even possible to see is zero. You can own one in San Francisco, or the LA area. And you have one filling station between the two areas if you want to travel. You can drive to Lake Tahoe, visit Santa Barbara, San Diego or Sacramento. And that is it. Its been stagnant this way for years.

Look for the blue dots. There are a total of 58 stations built in California. 52 are actually open for business and 6 are shut down at present. There are about another 60 in the process of construction and permitting thanks to a new CA law where the government is funding construction (not the market due to demand). Before the recent law, this construction boom wasn't happening, and its done after I think about 150 stations total come on line.

 

[m@Robertson]

Same way you wonder about crashing with a hydrogen cell I guess. I've seen videos of battery packs on fire shooting burning cells all over the place. I've also read engineering papers on hydrogen powered cars and the extent they go to protect the hydrogen tank in case of a crash. Battery packs have a layer of plastic over them.

gas tanks can go boom too. Its silly to worry about this. Statistically battery fires are very rare. They just get headlines and worryworts engage in handwringing. Ignore it. Modern civilization has been riding around in bombs for over a century and we live with those without concern.

 

[mschwett]

Yes but you are in one of only three metro areas in the entire United States that have ANY hydrogen refueling stations. Here is the federal map of same. Look for the blue dots. Here is the map location so you can confirm this is the sole island in the USA with filling stations:

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

If you live almost anywhere else in the USA, even in the state of CA, the number of Mirais its even possible to see is zero. You can own one in San Francisco, or the LA area. And you have one filling station between the two areas if you want to travel. You can drive to Lake Tahoe, visit Santa Barbara, San Diego or Sacramento. And that is it. Its been stagnant this way for years.

View attachment 154913

Look for the blue dots. There are a total of 58 stations built in California. 52 are actually open for business and 6 are shut down at present. There are about another 60 in the process of construction and permitting thanks to a new CA law where the government is funding construction (not the market due to demand). Before the recent law, this construction boom wasn't happening, and its done after I think about 150 stations total come on line.

interesting, that’s a lot more than i’d have expected, actually. i always assumed most of the people driving them were government or other fleet company employees.

the current hydrogen pathway doesn’t seem that great - better than gasoline but way worse than BEV.