Elderly and new to Electric-Bike's

[Alex M]

If you need a throttle, - Bosch motors don't have it. Townie is out, then. Most mid-drive motors don't have a throttle. Exceptions that I am aware of, are Bafang and Dapu mid-drives.

Here is a "flat foot" frame with a throttle: https://electricbikereview.com/eg/maui-500-ex/

 

[tomjasz]

If you need a throttle, - Bosch motors don't have it. Townie is out, then. Most mid-drive motors don't have a throttle. Exceptions that I am aware of, are Bafang and Dapu mid-drives.

Here is a "flat foot" frame with a throttle: https://electricbikereview.com/eg/maui-500-ex/

If we are able to move our legs, not even with the power needed to walk, the PAS system will remove all stress. With highest level assist we’re almost clown pedaling. No?

 

[Norwin]

The USA site lists MSRP. $2599.99
5 years ago I thought that a to high of a price. But by the time I took a Townie and put a good kit on, well it’s actually a fair price. My nicest DIY bikes are easily $2200. My latest build from a bare frame, not a flat foot, is at $2700. The Electra factory Ebike may be more reliable. But I enjoy bruised knuckles and turning wrenches.

I’m curious, what kind of reputation does Bill’s have?

No one has asked, do you have bikes now?

All the best,

Tom

________________________________'

Tom,

I have not owned or ridden a bike in decades. Thirty, forty years at least.

Norwin

 

[Alex M]

________________________________'

I have not owned or ridden a bike in decades. Thirty, forty years at least.

All the more reason to take a test-ride.

About throttle vs clown-pedaling at high PAS... Can be close, but never the same thing. With cadence-sensing PAS you have to pedal fast, in order to get max power corresponding to high PAS level. Or, let's say, not "fast" but "at certain minimum cadence". This minimum cadence could be rather slow at high PAS - and it could still be too much effort if you are climbing or in a high gear. With torque-sensing PAS I don't know if it gets any better for weak/tired muscles, because this type of PAS responds to your effort. With either cadence-sensing PAS or torque-sensing PAS the power would drop as soon as you stop pedaling or pedal slower, so there is an on-off feeling. How close high PAS is to real throttle, also depends on motor wattage and controller setup.

Hopefully these explanations are not too confusing to the OP. Test-ride is a must.

 

[Norwin]

If you need a throttle, - Bosch motors don't have it. Townie is out, then. Most mid-drive motors don't have a throttle. Exceptions that I am aware of, are Bafang and Dapu mid-drives.

Here is a "flat foot" frame with a throttle: https://electricbikereview.com/eg/maui-500-ex/

Alex,
Is a throttle necessary. Or, essential for a new rider?
Norwin

 

[Norwin]

All the more reason to take a test-ride.

About throttle vs clown-pedaling at high PAS... Can be close, but never the same thing. With cadence-sensing PAS you have to pedal fast, in order to get max power corresponding to high PAS level. Or, let's say, not "fast" but "at certain minimum cadence". This minimum cadence could be rather slow at high PAS - and it could still be too much effort if you are climbing or in a high gear. With torque-sensing PAS I don't know if it gets any better for weak/tired muscles, because this type of PAS responds to your effort. With either cadence-sensing PAS or torque-sensing PAS the power would drop as soon as you stop pedaling or pedal slower, so there is an on-off feeling. How close high PAS is to real throttle, also depends on motor wattage and controller setup.

Hopefully these explanations are not too confusing to the OP. Test-ride is a must.

My friend,

Your explanation was the same as your speaking in an alien language. I have no clue what any of the terms you were writing about means...
I don’t wish to be ungrateful. However, you must understand I haven’t owned an e-bike. I am totally new to e-bikes. I am eighty+ years old.
It is unreasonable for you to expect that I would/should know what the heck the abbreviations or words you freely use ...mean?

Thanks for trying. But, you only confused me further...
Norwin

 

[john peck]

John,

My experience in regard to your surviving to my age of 'eighty'...is quite simple.

If you just close your eyes. The next morning when you awake you too - will be eighty years old.

It occurs 'just' that quickly.

Those younger than yourself, now think of your age as being old. And, they like ourselves will get 'here' as quickly as we got here. In an instant!


And, hopefully you'll come visit our beautiful island in the Caribbean and you will find this 'then' elderly ninety year old riding his fourth or fifth electric bike. Ok?


With sincerest respect, Norwin

After your post, the first thing I did was scope out Grand Cayman on Google maps....in terrain mode. Looks like a great place for a bike.
"They say death is more honorable than old age, but most people want it." Crow saying.

 

[john peck]

John,

My experience in regard to your surviving to my age of 'eighty'...is quite simple.

If you just close your eyes. The next morning when you awake you too - will be eighty years old.

It occurs 'just' that quickly.

Those younger than yourself, now think of your age as being old. And, they like ourselves will get 'here' as quickly as we got here. In an instant!


And, hopefully you'll come visit our beautiful island in the Caribbean and you will find this 'then' elderly ninety year old riding his fourth or fifth electric bike. Ok?


With sincerest respect, Norwin

After your post, the first thing I did was scope out Grand Cayman on Google maps....in terrain mode. Looks like a great place for a bike.
"They say death is more honorable than old age, but most people want it." Crow saying.

 

[tomjasz]

Norwin,

Throttles are an American must. I ride almost exclusively without ever using mine. But I’m not the dominant market. I admit there are moments I tire of moving my legs, but after all it is a bicycle. And that’s precisely what I need to do most. Move.

Much of the civilized world doesn’t allow throttles and as usual the oldsters manage to move and ride.

Alex makes a valid point. No throttle is a big disappointment for many riders wanting the convenience of throttling home if tired out.

I believe a rider can learn to use their gearing and built in assist to be comfortable and not over stressed.

But as you’re probably realizing, opinions are like noses, we each have one.

 

[Norwin]

Norwin,

Throttles are an American must. I ride almost exclusively without ever using mine. But I’m not the dominant market. I admit there are moments I tire of moving my legs, but after all it is a bicycle. And that’s precisely what I need to do most. Move.

Much of the civilized world doesn’t allow throttles and as usual the oldsters manage to move and ride.

Alex makes a valid point. No throttle is a big disappointment for many riders wanting the convenience of throttling home if tired out.

I believe a rider can learn to use their gearing and built in assist to be comfortable and not over stressed.

But as you’re probably realizing, opinions are like noses, we each have one.

My friend, Thomas

What would be of value to the Mrs. and I, is if someone would only define what a throttle is, and does?

I don't know and I doubt any one in my place should be expected to know...

And what many of the above written abbreviations are, as they are not found in the Internet dictionary.

An abbrevation such as PAS?

Thomas, PAS has dozens of meanings if you also looked it up as I did. Indeed, I have no clue what it means?

And, I find when those in this forum decide to use these abbreviations and terms, their use must impress the user, as it shows their familiarity, however, it is no value to answering the questioner, myself and others who now and in the future will be reading this forum and are totally new to e-bike cycling and who like myself are in search of information, and in search of serious - HELP...

My respects,

Norwin

 

[Marci jo]

My friend, Thomas

What would be of value to the Mrs. and I, is if someone would only define what a throttle is, and does?

I don't know and I doubt any one in my place should be expected to know...

And what many of the above written abbreviations are, as they are not found in the Internet dictionary.

An abbrevation such as PAS?

Thomas, PAS has dozens of meanings if you also looked it up as I did. Indeed, I have no clue what it means?

And, I find when those in this forum decide to use these abbreviations and terms, their use must impress the user, as it shows their familiarity, however, it is no value to answering the questioner, myself and others who now and in the future will be reading this forum and are totally new to e-bike cycling and who like myself are in search of information, and in search of serious - HELP...

My respects,

Norwin

Norwin,
Do you have access to YouTube.com?
If so, there’s many videos that explain the electric bikes in simple terms. Don’t worry if there’s some parts that don’t make sense. It will come. The advantage to videos is that you can repeat them as often as needed. If you find you don’t like the video, fine, move on to the next one. Try this search in YouTube:

Electric Bike Basics

Don’t worry if you don’t understand all the terminology and abbreviations that the members of this forum use. I don’t understand much of it myself. And I own an e bike!!
Hang in there.

 

[Norwin]

Electra Bikes has a distributor in Georgetown, Grand Cayman. The Electra Townie Go! ebikes are nice cruisers with rust resistant hardware, and a low saddle foot forward design. Electra’s pedal bikes also include a model the Townie Original 7D which comes in a 24” wheel version which is a good size for short people, you could order an ebike mid drive kit motor and battery and pay a bike shop to convert it for your wife - a Bafang BBS kit motor would come with a throttle you could choose to fit if desired.
https://www.electrabike.com/worldwide-distributors

Or the same shop in Georgetown also appears to carry Trek Bikes (who owns the Electra brand). The Trek Verve+ comes in an XS size that is supposed to fit from 4’9” (again no throttle) https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...es/verve/verve-lowstep/p/25135/?colorCode=red

 

[Norwin]

Unsure if you saw my post #16 on this thread but there is a Trek and Electra dealer in Georgetown, perhaps they carry ebikes? Their Facebook page shows a room full of pedal bicycles from those brands.
https://m.facebook.com/UncleBills/
345-949-7601
[email protected]
WH McTaggart & Son (1995) Ltd . DBA Uncle Bill's Home Improvement Centre
345 Eastern Avenue, Georgetown, 10050 APO Cayman Islands

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Good morning, Dewey

I went this morning to the big bicycle retailer you had recommended in my country to learn about electrical bicycles and to beg them to allow me to test ride my first electrical bicycle prior to our first purchase of same.

Indeed, they had dozens of all size and all colours of bicycles.

However, when I asked to see their electric-bikes, I was told, we have NONE. We' have NEVER seen one. And, we do NOT anticipate...having any.

I paraphrase. But, the response, was as brief, as short and as firm...they've never seen an electrical bicycle, ever.

And, they certainly do NOT sell them.

So, I continue to be without any resource.

Also, I have written to the CEO's of four bicycle companies that I had narrowed down, asking for more specific details that would answer the questions my Mrs. had about their specific lady' sized e-bicycles and none have yet bothered to respond.

Ahhh, this is not going to be as easy as we all had thought, huh?

With my respect and friendship,

Norwin
_______________________________________________________________
Preview
Good morning, Dewey

I went this morning to the big bicycle retailer you had recommended in my country to learn about electrical bicycles and to beg them to allow me to test ride my first electrical bicycle prior to our purchase of same.

Indeed, they had dozens of all size and the love of all colours of bicycles.

However, when I asked to see their electric-bike selection, I was told, we have NONE. Indeed, we' have NEVER seen an electric bike. And, we do NOT anticipate...having any.

IDewey, I paraphrase. But, the response was as brief, as short and as firm...that they've never seen an electrical bicycle, ever.

And, they certainly THEY do NOT sell them.

So, I continue to be without any e-bike resource.

Also, I have written to the CEO's of four e-bicycle companies that the Mrs. and I had narrowed down, asking for more specific details that would answer the questions that my Mrs. had about specific lady' sized e-bicycles and none I had written have yet bothered to respond.

Ahhh, this is not going to be as easy as we all had thought, huh?

With my respect and friendship,

Norwin

 

[Norwin]

Your patience will pay off.

Unfortunately, I'm more familiar with kits and work supporting them from a couple of sources and that is not what you need.

BUT I am also a retired fellow and in quite poor health needing a specialized type of bike referred to as a "flat foot frame" Or "crank forward frame". A bicycle like the Electra Townie is in this class. I've converted 6 with different types of motors and motor locations. In my mind, those bikes are the safest and easiest to ride. I have at least 20 customers over the last year that have converted Townie bikes. When my niece and nephew gave in and looked for comfort they both went to Electra Townie factory built electric bikes.

The step-through design. a style like a bike Felix suggested is the easiest to mount. With the Electra, you step through and sit down. No climbing up on a saddle and no leaning over the handlebars and as shown in the pictures, an upright full view of surroundings.

My only caveat would be the Bosch motor, but the fellas here tell me it's a very durable reliable motor. My niece commutes 30 miles a day in good weather and has had zero problems with Bosch in her first year. I think Ravi is quite well, perhaps the best, versed of the posters here regarding that motor.

click on a photo for a larger view!

As to bike shops on the Caymans, I'm quite confused as to why I find some and they aren't found. I do remember that on St Croix and St John tourist businesses would come and go, some seemingly the same week. I'll link a few items I found again.

I've been musing and thinking I would have loved to have had an eBike for Island living. A ride to Cartagena de Indias would be a wonderful afternoon!

I've read that Uncle Bill's has helped locals find bike parts, leading me to imagine they might be helpful.


Uncle Bill's is listed as an Electra Dealer on the Electra worldwide dealer site. Bob's your uncle!
Uncle Bill's Home Improvement Centre - 343 Eastern Avenue, KY1-1001 George Town, Cayman





SuperCycles Electric Bikes Sales & Rental Shop Ltd.
KY1-1011
George Town, Cayman Islands
Call +1 345-916-0106

The Cayman Bike Company
Tel: (+1) 345 328 2662
Email us at [email protected]

Hi Thomas,

I went this morning to the big bicycle retailer you had recommended in my country to learn about electrical bicycles and to beg them to allow me to test ride my first electrical bicycle prior to our first purchase of same.

Indeed, they had dozens of all size and all colours of bicycles.

However, when I asked to see their electric-bikes, I was told, we have NONE. We' have NEVER even seen one. And, we do NOT anticipate...having any.

I paraphrase. But, the response, was as brief, and - as short and as firm...they've never even seen an electrical bicycle!

And, they certainly do NOT sell them.

So, I continue to be without any resource.

I have written to the CEO's of four bicycle companies that we had narrowed down, our interest in, asking for more specific details that would answer the questions my Mrs. had about their specific lady' sized e-bicycles and none have yet bothered to respond.

With my respect and friendship,

Norwin

 

[tomjasz]

And, they certainly do NOT sell them.

Good land! And Bills is clearly listed as an Electra dealer. If they have Electra bikes, non electric, you could at least find how the frame fits.

I feel compelled to add a warning, if you haven’t ridden in decades be careful. My grandfather, many years ago had me find a bike for him. He was 80. Very athletic but no experience with hand brakes. First ride was a nasty crash.

You seem very patient and thoughtful, but I thought it worth mentioning. 2020 will likely be the end of two wheels for me. I’m searching for the right tricycle.

I’m so sorry to read it’s this much of a struggle to sort an eBike!

Hang in there!

 

[Dewey]

___________________
No, no electric bicycles. None. Seriously, disappointing

I think Thomas might have been asking there whether Uncle Bill’s carried the non-electric pedal bicycle version of the Electra Townie, did they say if they might be open to converting one to electric for you?

 

[ebikemom]

Is a throttle necessary. Or, essential for a new rider?

I think throttles are very helpful. If you get tired, you can get home. If your chain falls off, you can get home. If you have a downturn in health and a loss of stamina, you can still ride your bike.

Class 1: Pedal assist, No throttle, goes up to 20mph.
Class 2: Pedal assist, throttle, goes up to 20mph.

I recommend Class 2 for you, but of course, this is just my opinion. There are a lot of brands that make Class 2 ebikes. Lots of great bikes out there.

There are also ebikes that have just a throttle, that go up to 20mph. Of course, one can also pedal along. I don't think there is a "Class" for that type of bike. It is an older type of ebike, but there still seems to be a market for it with some folks.

 

[ebikemom]

About throttle vs clown-pedaling at high PAS... Can be close, but never the same thing. With cadence-sensing PAS you have to pedal fast, in order to get max power corresponding to high PAS level. Or, let's say, not "fast" but "at certain minimum cadence". This minimum cadence could be rather slow at high PAS - and it could still be too much effort if you are climbing or in a high gear.

@Norwin , @Alex M is referring to two types of ebikes:

Cadence-sensing: gives you help every time you pedal, not matter how softly. You decide how much help to receive by picking the setting. For example, on recent versions of the bike I have, PAS ("pedal assist") 1 goes up to 8mph, PAS 2 up to 11mph, PAS 3 up to 14mph, PAS 4 up to 17mph, and PAS 5 up to 20mph. When you start riding, you pick PAS 1, if you want just a bit of help. Once you get to 8mph, the PAS stops helping. If you drop below 8mph, it helps again. It does this just because it senses pedaling and speed. It doesn't matter how hard you pedal. If you want to go faster than 8mph, you can keep it on PAS 1 and pedal harder. Or, if you want the bike to assist you to get to a higher speed, you can pick PAS 2. You don't have to use the PAS settings in order. The higher PAS the more acceleration you will experience. To have good balance, for a beginner I'd recommend starting on PAS 1 and going up one by one, to get used to the feeling.

Torque-sensing: the bike gives you help based upon how hard you pedal. If you pedal softly, you only get a little help. The harder you pedal, the more the bike helps. Some say this has a more natural feeling than cadence-sensing. But, it requires a higher level of physical fitness.

A physically fit person can get a lot out of either a cadence-sensing OR a torque-sensing bike, because with either you control how much help you are getting. If someone has stamina issues, joint issues, heart problems, or anything else that means pedaling harder can be a problem, either always or intermittantly, then a cadence-sensing bike might be a better fit for that person.

What @Alex M is saying is that if someone doesn't have the stamina to pedal very hard, they won't get much help from a torque-sensing bicycle.

A final example: Let's say the rider is tired and pedaling softly, but wants to get home in a timely manner. On a cadence-sensing bike, they just put the PAS on a higher level, and by continuing to pedal softly (what someone may have called "clown pedaling" even--pedaling without getting any "bite" with the gears, but feet moving nonetheless), they can get home at a reasonable clip.

Does this all make any sense?

BTW, I enjoy my cadence-sensing bike. I'm in my 50's and have no health problems, but found riding a conventional bike in our very hilly terrain to be a lot of work and not a lot of fun. I love my ebike. Commuted 25 miles today, mostly on PAS 3, which on my bike takes me up to a bit over 17mph.

 

[tomjasz]

my opinion.

And always kind and direct. Thanks for what you do and share. It’s your openness and common sense that makes a good moderator.

I find it interesting to see what tough regulations, like the EU, do to dampen eBike sales. There are multitudes of riders in the EU looking to bend rulz. But there are even more riders happy at 15mph. Of course we couldn’t abide by that, unless you like do Ellington the roses.


I do have a throttle on every kit build here. I guess I need to do without on my new build and see how it feels. Thus far I’ve been just repeating what I’ve heard. One season w/o a throttle. I am limited ability for muscle strain.

 

[tomjasz]

A physically fit person can get a lot out of either a cadence-sensing OR a torque-sensing bike, because with either you control how much help you are getting. If someone has stamina issues, joint issues, heart problems, or anything else that means pedaling harder can be a problem, either always or intermittantly, then a cadence-sensing bike might be a better fit for that person.

Spot on. Cadence sensing can be what som call “clown pedaling”. Fast or slow makes no differencd in muscle stress. Someday soon I have no muscle strength without pain, but I need to work an maintain range of motion. I’m OK with being a clown, sans makeup.