ebike designed for no pedaling

G

Gerald Scott

New Member
It seems like every ebike out there is designed to be pedaled. Why not just get a pedal bike? I used to ride mountain bikes, then switched to cruisers, and am now physically unable to ride a bike at all, because I can no longer pedal. Even the expensive ebikes have a VERY short range if you don't pedal. Seems like all the ebike ads give some ridiculous range, then put in fine print "with normal pedaling" Somebody please build an ebike with a decent range with NO pedaling.
 
Gerald Scott said:
It seems like every ebike out there is designed to be pedaled. Why not just get a pedal bike? I used to ride mountain bikes, then switched to cruisers, and am now physically unable to ride a bike at all, because I can no longer pedal. Even the expensive ebikes have a VERY short range if you don't pedal. Seems like all the ebike ads give some ridiculous range, then put in fine print "with normal pedaling" Somebody please build an ebike with a decent range with NO pedaling.
Click to expand...

It seems like there is certain sense of bitterness in your post and your predicament.
eBike by definition is bike first and then comes "e" part of it. They assist you on hills and at the same time provide great workout.

There are few bikes which have 30+ miles range in pure throttle mode.
Juiced Rider ODK with 23Ah battery or 32Ah battery
Pedego Interceptor with 48V, 15Ah (20sih miles)
 
I believe that as ebikes grow in popularity that throttle assist feature will diminish. Ebikes are first and foremost bicycles and designed to assist the bicycling function not elminate it. What you want is a moped for which there are many options to choose from. For eample, Genze makes what you are looking for. Genze is owned my Mahindra. Mahindra is a tiny Indian company about the size of General Motors.

http://store.genze.com
 
Ravi Kempaiah said:
It seems like there is certain sense of bitterness in your post and your predicament.
Click to expand...

I think it is hard to avoid bitterness about disability, but looking for ways to remain active is a great way to feel better about stuff like this. Sadly, many of the replies to your post were a little far afield. I've used mobility scooters and ebikes with throttles. It's too early to give up your search.

The CPSC rules, the federal regulations, do not care if an electric cycle has useful pedals or not. There is a 20 mph restriction. Most of the non-pedal ebikes look like small scooters, and there are a fair number around.

http://www.voltbike.ca/voltbike-metro-plus.html

These guys are in Canada. I don't know too much about them. It's heavy because of the lead acid batteries.

http://www.amazon.com/Jetson-Eco-Fr...qid=1440091330&sr=8-10&keywords=electric+bike

I think these have been reviewed here.

Range is almost always about battery capacity and speed. If you go fairly slow, most bikes have decent range. Prodeco and Pedego make bikes with throttles, some with big batteries. You could probably have a bike built for a good price, and get exactly what you want.

You just have to do some research, honestly. There are trikes and step-throughs, different ways to get around, and almost anything can be found with a throttle.
 
I use my ebike primarily ... as a bike, using the higher power levels to help with the hills. (Level 1 or 2 makes it feel like a regular bike due to its weight, so that's the balancing act.) And the throttle is very useful when I'm stopped at a busy intersection, in between a row of cars, also facing the opposite cars turning left. Nothing like a burst of power to scoot across the intersection and resume pedalling. But to each their own, that's the versatility of ebikes.
 
I do ride a scooter. a SYM HD200. But it is actually more like a small motorcycle, with a top speed of over 70 mph. A moped will not work where I live because they are not legal to ride in the bike lanes, and are to slow to ride in a traffic lane. There are those cheap Chinese 2 stroke engine kits, but they are pretty much junk, and while they are legal in the bike lanes, they are not legal on bike paths. They are also noisy. There is one particular bike path near my house that runs along a canal bank, and is over 20 miles long. I used to really enjoy evening rides along that path.

Both my knee and hip joints are in bad shape, and trying to pedal is extremely painful, in fact my doctor advised me not to do it, because it is likely to cause further damage.

As for the bitterness part, I did not mean for it to come across that way, but when you are 56 years old, and have ridden bikes all your life, and no longer can, it is a bit depressing. An ebike would not be exactly the same, but it would be close enough. It seems that there is simply no battery out there capable of the kind of range I need. This seems odd, as there as there are several electric cars with a several hundred miles. I believe the Tesla has about a 300 mile range, and the Nissan Leaf about half that. I would love to have an ebike with a 30 mile range, with no pedaling, even if I had to ride it at 5-7 mph. In fact, the slower you go, the more time you get to enjoy riding. I had very little trouble transitioning from a mountain bike, which I rode fairly aggressively, to a cruiser, which I rode in a very leisurely manner.
 
I'll give you a little math. If you fill in this calculator, it will tell you that using 200 watts with an ebike configuration will get you at a speed of 16 mph.

http://bikecalculator.com/how.html

If you bought something like a Prodeco X3 with a 16 AH and 36 volt battery, that is about 500 watt hours (amps X volts). OK, so 500 total watt hours in the battery divided by 200 watt hours, gets you at 16 mph for 2.5 hours. This may seem confusing, but you can work it out.

OK, so if you go 2.5 hours at 16 mph, that is 40 miles. This is a stock bike with a stock motor. These are real figures. I own an X3 and it will go way over 40 miles IF I go 16 mph or so.

Learn a little bit more. You'll be fine...

200 watts.JPG
 
George S. said:
I'll give you a little math. If you fill in this calculator, it will tell you that using 200 watts with an ebike configuration will get you at a speed of 16 mph.

http://bikecalculator.com/how.html

If you bought something like a Prodeco X3 with a 16 AH and 36 volt battery, that is about 500 watt hours (amps X volts). OK, so 500 total watt hours in the battery divided by 200 watt hours, gets you at 16 mph for 2.5 hours. This may seem confusing, but you can work it out.

OK, so if you go 2.5 hours at 16 mph, that is 40 miles. This is a stock bike with a stock motor. These are real figures. I own an X3 and it will go way over 40 miles IF I go 16 mph or so.

Learn a little bit more. You'll be fine...

View attachment 4173
Click to expand...

If things were as easy as filling in few # !! :)
Rider weight and terrain makes a big difference.
Also, 36V system has voltage sag near the end of the battery pack. The last 20% has just enough oomph to push you at 15mph in throttle only mode.
Even the newer 36V battery from Prodeco that uses Samsung cells experiences this voltage sag (http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/phantom-xr-5.2502/)
So, I don't think LiFePo4 will behave any different.
 
Canals tend to be flat. Rider weight doesn't matter much once up to speed. Not too many cross streets on a canal, hopefully. I can find him a monster battery, if he wants to build a kit. He can buy something with two batteries. He can buy a 48 volt system. He can go a bit slower. I wish all the problems were this easy. This is easy. Super easy.

I guess (pure guess) Stromer uses a switching power system to boost at the end of the battery, maintain amps. Seems like it would be hard on the packs. But even if we are down to 3 ah in the Lifepo 36 volt battery, 200 watts is only 2x the reduced C rate.
 
George S. said:
Canals tend to be flat. Rider weight doesn't matter much once up to speed. Not too many cross streets on a canal, hopefully. I can find him a monster battery, if he wants to build a kit. He can buy something with two batteries. He can buy a 48 volt system. He can go a bit slower. I wish all the problems were this easy. This is easy. Super easy.

I guess (pure guess) Stromer uses a switching power system to boost at the end of the battery, maintain amps. Seems like it would be hard on the packs. But even if we are down to 3 ah in the Lifepo 36 volt battery, 200 watts is only 2x the reduced C rate.
Click to expand...

George S for 2016 !!!
I will be your PR publicist.

Slogan: Make conversion kits great again..!

Prez debate pitch:

I built a great great E-bike company with a net worth of $10B.....
China is the new mexico, they are sending us bad controllers, crappy hub motors and C-grade cells.
Chinese vendors are much smarter, much sharper and they beat us all the time in E-bike trade deals. We have incompetent, European-driven companies in California that wants to employ Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3 system.
How stupid!
Accell, you're fired..... BH, you're fired.... !!

let's make conversion kids great again.... :)

PS: I'm ready to be your running mate :)
 
Thanks Ravi,

If the OP has any more questions we're all here to help:D. There are a lot of options.

(What are we converting the kids to?)

Best,

George
 
Gerald Scott said:
I do ride a scooter. a SYM HD200. But it is actually more like a small motorcycle, with a top speed of over 70 mph. A moped will not work where I live because they are not legal to ride in the bike lanes, and are to slow to ride in a traffic lane. There are those cheap Chinese 2 stroke engine kits, but they are pretty much junk, and while they are legal in the bike lanes, they are not legal on bike paths. They are also noisy. There is one particular bike path near my house that runs along a canal bank, and is over 20 miles long. I used to really enjoy evening rides along that path.

Both my knee and hip joints are in bad shape, and trying to pedal is extremely painful, in fact my doctor advised me not to do it, because it is likely to cause further damage.

As for the bitterness part, I did not mean for it to come across that way, but when you are 56 years old, and have ridden bikes all your life, and no longer can, it is a bit depressing. An ebike would not be exactly the same, but it would be close enough. It seems that there is simply no battery out there capable of the kind of range I need. This seems odd, as there as there are several electric cars with a several hundred miles. I believe the Tesla has about a 300 mile range, and the Nissan Leaf about half that. I would love to have an ebike with a 30 mile range, with no pedaling, even if I had to ride it at 5-7 mph. In fact, the slower you go, the more time you get to enjoy riding. I had very little trouble transitioning from a mountain bike, which I rode fairly aggressively, to a cruiser, which I rode in a very leisurely manner.
Click to expand...
If you speed is not your issue, you could ride a Stromer ST2 that has a huge battery and a boost mode (hold the + button down on the handlebar controller) that would get you to 12 mph max and probably be good for 30-40 miles. They make a step thru version to add mount/dismount.
 
George S. said:
Thanks Ravi,

If the OP has any more questions we're all here to help:D. There are a lot of options.

(What are we converting the kids to?)

Best,

George
Click to expand...

LOL. typo (kits)

Confucius once said... " Teach your kids how to convert an E-bike, they will never have enough money for weed" :D
best way to tackle childhood obesity and drug addiction ;)
 
While riding home yesterday I was stopped at a stop-light. One lady was on a standard pedal bike, and then a guy with no legs on a carbon-fiber hand-bike rolled up. We were going slightly uphill, and the hand-bike guy blew past the lady on the bike. I didn't realize a hand-bike could be so fast, even off the line.

If the OP is open to other forms of bicycles, he may find that he can extend his range with a hand bike or one of those elliptical bikes.

There's a guy on Youtube who's designed all sorts of unconventional bikes, and some are propelled by hands+feet.
(Jinmanchoi)
 
George S. said:
I'll give you a little math. If you fill in this calculator, it will tell you that using 200 watts with an ebike configuration will get you at a speed of 16 mph.

http://bikecalculator.com/how.html

If you bought something like a Prodeco X3 with a 16 AH and 36 volt battery, that is about 500 watt hours (amps X volts). OK, so 500 total watt hours in the battery divided by 200 watt hours, gets you at 16 mph for 2.5 hours. This may seem confusing, but you can work it out.

OK, so if you go 2.5 hours at 16 mph, that is 40 miles. This is a stock bike with a stock motor. These are real figures. I own an X3 and it will go way over 40 miles IF I go 16 mph or so.

Learn a little bit more. You'll be fine...

View attachment 4173
Click to expand...

Sorry, I have to call you out for giving completely false figures. Especially since you are giving this advice to someone who has a disability and can't afford to run out of power 10 or 20 miles from home.

500 watt hours will under no circumstance get you 40 miles without pedaling on flat ground or especially under realistic conditions with variation in terrain, wind, and stopping and starting, etc. I have a 1000 watt hub motor with a 48 volt 18 amp hour battery(that is 864 watt hours). My maximum range on relatively flat ground with no pedaling and minimal stopping and starting and with new, fully charged batteries was 18 miles, that's about 50 watt hours per mile. My speed was about 20mph more or less. I weigh only 150 pounds. It is less than that now because batteries lose some of their capacity very quickly after their initial few cycles and continue to slowly lose capacity over time and use.

In my experience a realistic figure is about 50 watt hours per mile with realistic riding conditions keeping it under 20 mph with a healthy battery pack. This may be slightly better or worse depending on the efficiency of your drive system and other factors. You may be able to get down to 40 or less watt hours per mile if you take steps like decreasing your wind resistance by riding slowly or hunkering down, making sure tires are well inflated, accelerating slowly, etc.

Also, you don't have to rely on these insanely priced battery packs. You can build one yourself with a little research or commission a friend with a little electronic skill to build one for you for a fraction of the price. Always make sure to get batteries from a reputable source though, there tons of fakes and even the legit batteries don't quite live up to their specs. You can be pretty confident the AH rating and range claims on most premade packs and ebikes is a load of s*it. Everyone, please do your research so you don't get burned and so you end up getting what you need for a reasonable price. And unless you have money to burn, never buy an ebike that costs thousands when you can pretty easily make your own that outperforms those pieces of crap in every way. In other words, they are ripping you off and lying to you.

Pardon me. Good luck and enjoy!
 
dustman said:
Sorry, I have to call you out for giving completely false figures. Especially since you are giving this advice to someone who has a disability and can't afford to run out of power 10 or 20 miles from home.

500 watt hours will under no circumstance get you 40 miles without pedaling on flat ground or especially under realistic conditions with variation in terrain, wind, and stopping and starting, etc. I have a 1000 watt hub motor with a 48 volt 18 amp hour battery(that is 864 watt hours). My maximum range on relatively flat ground with no pedaling and minimal stopping and starting and with new, fully charged batteries was 18 miles, that's about 50 watt hours per mile. My speed was about 20mph more or less. I weigh only 150 pounds. It is less than that now because batteries lose some of their capacity very quickly after their initial few cycles and continue to slowly lose capacity over time and use.

In my experience a realistic figure is about 50 watt hours per mile with realistic riding conditions keeping it under 20 mph with a healthy battery pack. This may be slightly better or worse depending on the efficiency of your drive system and other factors. You may be able to get down to 40 or less watt hours per mile if you take steps like decreasing your wind resistance by riding slowly or hunkering down, making sure tires are well inflated, accelerating slowly, etc.

Also, you don't have to rely on these insanely priced battery packs. You can build one yourself with a little research or commission a friend with a little electronic skill to build one for you for a fraction of the price. Always make sure to get batteries from a reputable source though, there tons of fakes and even the legit batteries don't quite live up to their specs. You can be pretty confident the AH rating and range claims on most premade packs and ebikes is a load of s*it. Everyone, please do your research so you don't get burned and so you end up getting what you need for a reasonable price. And unless you have money to burn, never buy an ebike that costs thousands when you can pretty easily make your own that outperforms those pieces of crap in every way. In other words, they are ripping you off and lying to you.

Pardon me. Good luck and enjoy!
Click to expand...

I've logged 200 rides with a watt hour meter and on my two efficient bikes I average 14 wh per mile. Average speed around 15 mph.
 
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