easy-rolling ebikes when unpowered (what brands)

[AHicks]

I have found that my R1U LMTD rolls easily enough on level ground. I can quite easily pedal about 10 mph unpowered. A bit faster if I'm motivated. The issue, though, is the gearing. The least little hill becomes a major obstacle since I can't shift lower the way I can on my ordinary bike. Not that I'm going to change anything; I have PAS for that. But if the electric ever happens to quit working, I'll probably have to get off and walk the bike much of the way home.

As far as the gearing is concerned, that's something that can often be set up according to your priorities. If the bike isn't geared low enough for you, a smaller chain ring (front gear) can be installed pretty easily. Issue there being you may not be able to keep up with the pedals at higher speeds. Like a lot of things, there's a compromise.

Then, there's the freewheel (rear gear cluster). If the derailleur is working properly, allowing the chain up onto the biggest gear, having a tough time understanding how you might need to go much lower than that to pedal home under a no power scenario. Any bike I've been on you have to pedal like mad to go anywhere in that gear. That should be PLENTY low enough?

 

[Roamers]

I ride unpowered more than powered on my Gazelle C380.

 

[Bobber]

My Bafang mid drive is definitely hard to pedal unpowered, so I never do. I'm pretty sure I am spinning the motor and it really saps my juice. I am always pedaling otherwise.

 

[AHicks]

My Bafang mid drive is definitely hard to pedal unpowered, so I never do. I'm pretty sure I am spinning the motor and it really saps my juice. I am always pedaling otherwise.

It sounds like your motor might have a seized up clutch? When you roll the bike backwards, you should feel the magnets creating kind of a "notchy" feeling. That's normal. If it's doing that same "notchy" thing when rolling it forward, that's the motor turning - and a sign that the clutch is pooched....

If you DON'T feel that "notchy" feeling when rolling the bike forward, the motor is NOT turning.

 

[EMGX]

If you DON'T feel that "notchy" feeling when rolling the bike forward, the motor is NOT turning.

If you are rolling a bike forward then the rear hub should be freewheeling anyway, unless you are running a fixed hub.
I don't get the Bafang pedaling resistance problem that users report. Doesn't it have two one way clutches like TSDZ2 has? Clutch in the main gear so that the motor running turns the chainring but doesn't turn the pedals, another in the reduction gear so that turning the pedals forward doesn't turn the motor, or is there something different?

 

[Taylor57]

I rode my Ride 1 UP Gravelster yesterday approx 2 miles without power on my way to workout. I'm pretty comfortable I could ride it without power for awhile without too much trauma...

It is listed at 32lbs but I think I remember I weighed it and it was closer to 35 or 36. I also added the Redshift and Suntour NCX suspensions as well as a new handlebar so its probably a little heavier. It does ride smoothly and is very quiet. Love the Gates belt drive...

 

[fooferdoggie]

As far as the gearing is concerned, that's something that can often be set up according to your priorities. If the bike isn't geared low enough for you, a smaller chain ring (front gear) can be installed pretty easily. Issue there being you may not be able to keep up with the pedals at higher speeds. Like a lot of things, there's a compromise.

Then, there's the freewheel (rear gear cluster). If the derailleur is working properly, allowing the chain up onto the biggest gear, having a tough time understanding how you might need to go much lower than that to pedal home under a no power scenario. Any bike I've been on you have to pedal like mad to go anywhere in that gear. That should be PLENTY low enough?

I have my bike dialed in for how I ride with power. without I would need much lower gearing. I need much lower gearing without power. but that low gearing is a waste with power and makes too large of jumps between gears then I want.

 

[AHicks]

If you are rolling a bike forward then the rear hub should be freewheeling anyway, unless you are running a fixed hub.
I don't get the Bafang pedaling resistance problem that users report. Doesn't it have two one way clutches like TSDZ2 has? Clutch in the main gear so that the motor running turns the chainring but doesn't turn the pedals, another in the reduction gear so that turning the pedals forward doesn't turn the motor, or is there something different?

You're right, not enough coffee when I wrote that.

And yes, there are 2 clutches up front. One for the sprocket, to allow the motor to power the bike when not pedaling, and a second one for the motor, to allow it to stop turning while coasting. Not getting the Bafang resistance thing here either. I mean I get how there is SOME resistance due to bearing resistance, but it should be negligible.

 

[Catalyzt]

I have my bike dialed in for how I ride with power. without I would need much lower gearing. I need much lower gearing without power. but that low gearing is a waste with power and makes too large of jumps between gears then I want.

I have Shimano MegaRanges on both my Trek 930 and my Raleigh Competition back in New York.

For the Raleigh (full acoustic), now that I'm 65, I can barely even manage the steepest Central Park uphill grades... I can't even imagine the bike without it!

The Trek now has the Hilltopper front-hub kit, and I still kept the MegaRange. When the bike was acoustic, there were hills in this neighborhood that I could not get up at all... I was physically capable of making them-- just barely-- but I couldn't get the job done only delivering power to the rear wheel! Either the rear wheel would lose traction, or I'd pop a wheelie, could never get my weight distributed right. With the kit, I'm still VERY HAPPY to have the MegaRange, and I haven't yet found a hill (on pavement) in this neighborhood that I can't go up with the extended granny gear. Such a pleasure getting to the top of those hills for the first time, though it's still a workout. The Hilltopper kit is not that powerful-- could be even under 40nm, and front hubs aren't the most efficient-- so I'm grateful for the MegaRange. But if it was a weak rear hub instead of a weak front hub, I think I'd have the same problem I had without the motor.

The Motobecane is already set up and dialed in as an eMTB, so a lower granny gear wouldn't be that useful. MAYbe one or two extra teeth would help for Hell Hill, which is dirt, and which I've only made it up once without stopping, but not much more than that. I would be geared so low that I'm not sure the bike would be going fast enough to remain upright!

 

[fooferdoggie]

The Motobecane is already set up and dialed in as an eMTB, so a lower granny gear wouldn't be that useful. MAYbe one or two extra teeth would help for Hell Hill, which is dirt, and which I've only made it up once without stopping, but not much more than that. I would be geared so low that I'm not sure the bike would be going fast enough to remain upright!

I have a 11-32 and a 46 chainring and it works for almost everything on my commuter. but only with power. it came with a 1142 but I don't like the steps. I can get a 42 chain ring and I have been debating on it s I don't usually got much faster the 24 and it would give me a lot more torque and thus give me more range. but if I feel good I can do a 18% grade short hill at 16mph in tour so I don't really need it. but then I could do it in eco

 

[retiredNH]

I have a 11-32 and a 46 chainring and it works for almost everything on my commuter. but only with power. it came with a 1142 but I don't like the steps. I can get a 42 chain ring and I have been debating on it s I don't usually got much faster the 24 and it would give me a lot more torque and thus give me more range. but if I feel good I can do a 18% grade short hill at 16mph in tour so I don't really need it. but then I could do it in eco

You need to build yourself an ebike with a triple crank. That would be a first?

 

[Bobber]

I played with my bike yesterday. It seems like initially there's a bit of resistance which goes away after you get a bit of speed going. I am stuck with only the 46 tooth chain ring now so that's part of it plus the added weight of the mid-drive and big battery. My bike weighs 58 pounds including the rear rack, fenders and kickstand now so it's not super heavy compared to some. Or.....I could just be too old, weak and fat. And senile
Edit: I did that notchy test beforehand and everything is okay mechanically.

 

[AHicks]

I played with my bike yesterday. It seems like initially there's a bit of resistance which goes away after you get a bit of speed going. I am stuck with only the 46 tooth chain ring now so that's part of it plus the added weight of the mid-drive and big battery. My bike weighs 58 pounds including the rear rack, fenders and kickstand now so it's not super heavy compared to some. Or.....I could just be too old, weak and fat. And senile

I wouldn't be too worried about that. There's plenty of that to go around here among us. Old, weak, and fat, along with a little senility at least (describes me to a T, but you left out grumpy!), are ALL good reasons to get out and do some riding! And maybe even hang out here!

You do have one of the lighter bikes, and with the amount of power it has available, rolling resistance isn't the concern it might be, not like it would be on a fly weight anyway. Geez, get out and have some fun with it.

As far as rolling resistance, the bike's weight and maybe your tires (from both a design and inflation standpoint), will very likely be your culprits if you wanted to look into reducing it.

I run Schwalbe Super Moto-X in both 27.5 x 2.4" and 27.5 x 2.8" (depending on the bike) for their low rolling resistance AND their ability to run at lower pressures for an awesome ride.

 

[fooferdoggie]

You need to build yourself an ebike with a triple crank. That would be a first?

at least a double. that's the thing I found about e bikes myself. they are great with power not so great without.

 

[Bobber]

I do get out with it several times a week. I did a 74.8 mile ride this summer! I usually keep it PAS 3 out of nine so I'm always pedaling. I think the (my) other issue is it's mostly hills around here, lots of really steep ones. I really notice the grade now that I don't have those 2 smaller gears up front. I'll be in Barcelona Friday so might rent a little eBike there for some fun.

 

[tomjasz]

I am stuck with only the 46 tooth chain ring

I can't parse why the 44t and 46t are even sold. 95% of after-market sales are 42T. 12Tx42T BBSHD is a 32-33MPH bike with 48-52v batteries.

 

[AHicks]

I can't parse why the 44t and 46t are even sold. 95% of after-market sales are 42T. 12Tx42T BBSHD is a 32-33MPH bike with 48-52v batteries.

I don't know why/how it might be different on an Ultra Powered bike, but I went from a 44t to a 49t. The 44t when on the 11t rear would run MAYBE 20mph with me pedaling pretty hard (not an athlete by any shape of the imagination). I switched to the 49t not to go faster, but to avoid use of the 11t rear.

 

[tomjasz]

I went from a 44t to a 49t.

Cuz were old throttlers?

 

[JustRiding]

Probably wise to narrow down your search on lightweight / hybrid bikes as any bike >20 kg will due to their weight not be much fun to ride without engine assitance, even if the engine does decouple. I own a Vado SL 4.0 EQ ( a bit below 17 KG ) and as described previously, the motor decouples pretty well . However even there it feels a bit more cumbersome to ride it. Had recently at a long trip the battery gone empty and the last 4 km against the wind (seaside) felt really heavy, more than with a conventional bike without motor. Not really drag but the weight of the bike. In a few days I'll get a racing e-bike, Scott Addict e-Ride 20, which weights just 11,8 kg and has a hub motor that also decouples. For racing bikes this is expected to happen more often as you quickly reach up beyond 25 km/h. Let's see how this goes. Looking forward to venture into the world of race biking.

 

[retiredNH]

Probably wise to narrow down your search on lightweight / hybrid bikes as any bike >20 kg will due to their weight not be much fun to ride without engine assitance, even if the engine does decouple. I own a Vado SL 4.0 EQ ( a bit below 17 KG ) and as described previously, the motor decouples pretty well . However even there it feels a bit more cumbersome to ride it. Had recently at a long trip the battery gone empty and the last 4 km against the wind (seaside) felt really heavy, more than with a conventional bike without motor. Not really drag but the weight of the bike. In a few days I'll get a racing e-bike, Scott Addict e-Ride 20, which weights just 11,8 kg and has a hub motor that also decouples. For racing bikes this is expected to happen more often as you quickly reach up beyond 25 km/h. Let's see how this goes. Looking forward to venture into the world of race biking.

But the weight of the bike only matters significantly if you're going uphill. On flats, not a big deal. Consider that the total weight of a typical adult male rider and 50 pound ebike is about 250 pounds. Take 10 pounds off the total for a lighter bike, and you've saved 4 percent of the weight, a trivial amount!
Tires, OTOH, are a big deal and make a huge difference in rolling resistance. Interestingly, from what I've read, with modern tires, inflation pressure isn't as big a deal as it used to be!
YMMV?