Creo vs Creo 2 geometry
- Thread starter Toman
- Start date
I think you're misreading the addressing the market part. What I've been chatting about is why Specialized doesn't make a road racing geometry frame in an e-bike. The Creo is and always has been straddling endurance road geometry and gravel geometry. Those are extremely popular segments, and thus the Creo is sold out. Creo geometry is more similar to a flat bar hybrid than Tour de France team geo, which IMO is a great choice on the part of Specialized.
I got slammed in a previous thread for suggesting that Speccy might/should come out with a lightweight road specific Mahle X20/35 hub motor equipped e bike. I still think the idea makes sense for them. They're already in business with Mahle, there is certainly a market (Here in Europe at least) and road cyclists want low weight, a 2 x set up, road geo. and don't want or need a huge amount of assist. Specialized have different styles of road bikes Tarmac, Roubaix etc, so why not have different specced drop bar e bike ranges? And with their new range of cargo hub bikes they clearly are not opposed to hub gears per say.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I strongly disagree. Nobody needs a 25 km/h road bike in Europe. Everybody needs a gravel e-bike (outside the UK) though.
I agree. If Specialized thought that an e road bike would sell they would have made one. They straddled the line with the original Creo and now have gone to mostly gravel with the Creo 2. The gravel market must be larger. Gravel bikes are more versatile, gravel bikes are ok on the road and can be user modified to be more road friendly. Road bikes don't do well on gravel and are not as easy to modify for gravel riding The limited availability of the Creo 2 would indicate that they made the right decision.
mschwett
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
i think you’re jumping to a lot of conclusions there. almost every bike specialized releases is hard to get at the beginning, especially because they offer limited trim levels and then add more later. the full range isn’t even available yet. i waited quite a long time to get a $14k non-electric specialized road bike, but that doesn’t mean the overall line was a huge success. it wasn’t.
i do think the creo 2 will be popular, but not with roadies. so the question remains whether specialized will pursue a market that many other brands (scott, wilier, orbea, trek, ribble, etc) have pursued with a much better suited option. it’s very unlike specialized to leave a hole in the range when their competitors have filled it!
the US market is obviously different with the possibility of class 3 road e bikes. i think that’s an opportunity that specialized capitalized on with the original creo, since the mahle x20 options are 20mph.
They've proved before they are good at finding/exploiting markets and being on top of trends. I am curious to see what 2024 brings. Lightweight e road bikes continues to be a large market - bluntly older men/women with the £££ to buy top of the range and want the best & can afford it. My older sister in her 60s and her friends do huge rides (unassisted). I tried out a new Roubaix of one of her friends in her 60s in the summer. Gorgeous bike. They do talk about buying gravel bikes (not e bikes) but not at the expense of getting rid of their current road bikes. N + 1 etc. I think for roadies when you spend your life riding lightweight bikes you want an e bike that mimics that feel as closely as possible.
When the Creo 2 was presented to press and media in Portugal, Specialized informed the media representatives that they will not develope an e-road-only-bike besides the Creo 2. This is at least the statement of the chief editor of a German road and gravel bike online forum, who was there when the Creo 2 was presented.
But maybe they will change their mind in the future...
mschwett
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
of course they have to say that, otherwise half the potential customers would just wait!
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
"The mills of Specialized grind slowly"Customers of Specialized bikes are not known for their patience
I think I was misled regarding the differences in geometry of Creo 1 vs Creo 2. My 2020 Creo 1 is an XL or 58cm. The geometry specs from the website suggests the headtube length on my bike is 21.7 cm. I do love a tall headtube as I need my bars up high. When I looked at Creo 2 geo chart for a 58cm it says the headtube is 15 cm. That freaked me out and suggested I could never fit on a 2 and that Specialized dramatically altered the 2 geometry. In fact, it is my belief that either there's a mistake in the 2020 chart or they are now measuring headtubes differently. As I see it now the Creo 2 58 has a 15cm headtube...and today I measured my own 58 from 2020 and it measures 16 cm. So granted there is a difference between the 1 and the 2 for a 58 headtube but it is small and I have the feeling the lower bottom bracket on the 2 mostly makes the 2 really close to the 1...except for the angles.
You have verified that both bikes measure the same axle to crown? The new version clears bigger tires, maybe it has a taller fork?
Calcoaster
Active Member
- Region
- USA
By measuring my XXL Creo 1, I determined that Specialized’s head tube measurement goes from the bottom of the tube up to the flange point on the future shock where the stem will sit (with no spacers under the f shock). Because of the way the future shock fits into the head tube, this point is the lowest the front end could be, and seems more consistent with other non- future shock bike head tube measurements. Maybe the creo 2 is measured differently, or the new future shock has a different mounting design?
I was in my LBS with my XL Creo 1 and they brought out a 58 Creo 2. Together we took the meter tape to both headtubes. Mine was 16ish and the Creo 2 was 15. We measured just the headtube that is equal to the carbon frame and did not include any part of the shock. I think in the older geo charts they were including parts of shock...as you said.
You'll probably see a change in the displayed head tube length.
I think you're focusing on the wrong geometry spec. Better to look at Stack - which represents the height of the handlebars relative to the bottom bracket.
Difference in BB Drop - height difference between axles and bottom bracket is 4.5mm - with the Creo2 having a 75.5mm BB drop and Creo1 80mm.
So - Creo2 size 58 is 638mm stack and 75.5mm BB drop, and C1 XL with 643mm stack and 80mm BB Drop leaves you a 0.5mm lesser effective stack to axles on the Creo2 than Creo1 (size 58 vs XL). Pretty minor. (and just to state the obvious - axle height above ground will be identical if using same 700x35 tires on each)
(edited to use the correct XL size BB drop instead of L size)
2021 Creo SL Comp Carbon:
Creo 2 Comp
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Actually on this chart for C1 XL the bb drop is 75.5. And C2 is 80.0. So both the 1 and the 2 are nearly identical in reach and stack, which is way different than I thought when simply comparing the old geo chart to the new one cuz the old stated ht dimension was giant compared to the new bike.
Sorry, yes, I read the wrong column on the Specialized chart - size L is 78mm, size XL is 75.5mm.
That puts the two frames within a half millimeter of one another for effective stack relative to BB. I'll edit my post so as not to confuse future readers.
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