Chains and Cassettes

[GuruUno]

I know I know (Stefan), take off the chain and count the links, I know.
BUT.........
IF OEM chain for the Vado 5.0 (2022) and Como 5.0 (2022) is specified as a KMC e11T 11 Speed w/missing link
WHAT is the actual OEM out the factory link count????? Why would I need to count links if the OOB (out of the box) has already been determined at the time of manufacture/build?????
and
if the cassette is an SRAM PG-1130 11-42, and I have a few new Shimano SLX-CS-M7000 cassettes, can those be used or?
Much appreciate a very easy answer

 

[PedalUma]

I do not count links. I have a section of spoke that has hooks on each end. It is about 107mm long. I feed the new chain pulling the ends together until the derailleur is at the correct angle. Cut, then use the missing link. Or you could put the old chain over the top of a door and cut the new one the same length. People without real world experience will say that the indexing is incompatible and that you must stay on brand. I am mostly using unbranded Micro Shift because anyone who is impressed by a logo is not someone I care to have an opinion from.

 

[GuruUno]

I do not count links. I have a section of spoke that has hooks on each end. It is about 107mm long. I feed the new chain pulling the ends together until the derailleur is at the correct angle. Cut, then use the missing link. Or you could put the old chain over the top of a door and cut the new one the same length. People without real world experience will say that the indexing is incompatible and that you must stay on brand. I am mostly using unbranded Micro Shift because anyone who is impressed by a logo is not someone I care to have an opinion from.

I've removed old, existing chains in the past to match up to new ones. The point of my questions is to know what length to order/buy when 3 different sizes are offered (lengths), and not to pay exorbitant prices for lengths not needed, etc.

 

[PedalUma]

Okay. Got it. A new chain will measure 12 inches over 12 links. Cogs and the chainring have 50% contact. Jockey wheels too. So, it is then a matter of measuring from the largest cog and adding for cage length. Sounds like a pain. Those e-11 chains are expensive.

 

[Calcoaster]

I don’t get it - if you have a bike with the correct length chain on it, why not just count the links, then order one with that size (or more)? That‘s got to be easier and more accurate than any measurement of the chain ring, jockey wheels, derailleur cage etc. I think if the bike specs included the number of chain links, that would just be one more spec to edit any time they change drivetrain components, and one more data point for me to question the accuracy of.

And isn’t a chain that uses a pin going to be one link longer than one that uses a master link? That would be just another detail to question if they specified chain length in the bike specs.

 

[PedalUma]

Yes, exactly @Calcoaster. If you already have the chain put a dot of paint on one link then count. The quick link adds one. I am using half-link chains on many of my IGH bikes. These chains are super strong and last as long as a belt. There is an initial stretch then they settle in for the long haul. The half-link allows for a precision adjustment of length.

 

[GuruUno]

BUT.........I THINK my point/QUESTION/Post is being misunderstood.
WHY DOES THE MANUFACTURER (Specialized/Rider I-DON'T CARE), have the information available so that the process of just going to a site, finding the item, and ordering it, is as streamlined and easy as possible, by providing the specifications somewhere?
I don't want to create bad vibrations or disturbances, but it's a simple, easy-to-answer, elegant answer, FOR THE PROVIDER OF THE BIKE, to inform the purchaser of the specification, and not have to have that person or his "agent" (LBS) remove the chain and count the links?
When a part on a car needs replacement, does the owner need to do an intensive interrogation of the part in need of replacement prior to placing an order?
This is ridiculous. If a bike is made with PART A and PART B, why does the owner of the bike need to investigate by disassembly and/or involvement of others to find out the answers?
Really?

 

[mschwett]

BUT.........I THINK my point/QUESTION/Post is being misunderstood.
WHY DOES THE MANUFACTURER (Specialized/Rider I-DON'T CARE), have the information available so that the process of just going to a site, finding the item, and ordering it, is as streamlined and easy as possible, by providing the specifications somewhere?
I don't want to create bad vibrations or disturbances, but it's a simple, easy-to-answer, elegant answer, FOR THE PROVIDER OF THE BIKE, to inform the purchaser of the specification, and not have to have that person or his "agent" (LBS) remove the chain and count the links?
When a part on a car needs replacement, does the owner need to do an intensive interrogation of the part in need of replacement prior to placing an order?
This is ridiculous. If a bike is made with PART A and PART B, why does the owner of the bike need to investigate by disassembly and/or involvement of others to find out the answers?
Really?

in short, because there are so many variations of correct chain length with the variety of cassettes and chainrings and bike geometry and derailleurs out there. obviously they know what length for each combo, but the hassle for them of making that information publicly available and up to date is greater than the benefit to - frankly - anyone but you. your bike has a chain on it. go count the links. then order a new one. you don’t even need to remove it.

a chain is an adjustable part. your analogy to cars is more like asking why they don’t sell the oil in EXACTLY the right size container to fill the engine from empty perfectly. i mean, they must know, right !?! a normal person just buys a little more, empties it, and fills it until you hit the right spot on the dipstick after turning the thing over.

 

[GuruUno]

Ok