Cannondale Mavaro Performance 1
- Thread starter grnmtnbk
- Start date
Looks like a decent eBike for commuting. There is a debate as to what drive system technology is best for urban riding but I'm a big believer that the simple gearless hub motor is best. The argument for mid-drives always boils down to weight distribution and the utilization of the drive train gear ratios but that only benefits slow speeds and climbing. If you want to spend a lot of riding time going faster than 15mph a hub drive can make a lot of sense.
I'm working with Power In Motion on a very cool urban ebike that you may want to check out. It's based on the mid-step frame from PIM Bicycles eBike line but has carbon forks, bars, and a carbon suspension seatpost yet will still be priced below $2,000. I can send more information if you are interested. Very cool bike if you end up liking the idea of a hub motor.
I'm working with Power In Motion on a very cool urban ebike that you may want to check out. It's based on the mid-step frame from PIM Bicycles eBike line but has carbon forks, bars, and a carbon suspension seatpost yet will still be priced below $2,000. I can send more information if you are interested. Very cool bike if you end up liking the idea of a hub motor.
Thanks for your suggestion, Ken. I am set on a step-thru frame, so I wouldn't be contender for your mid-step or mixte bike.
After visiting the "Step-Thru" forum, I am very intrigued with the 2018 Kalkhoff Image Advance B8 due later this year.
If you have specific thoughts on the Cannondale Mavaro model referenced above, I welcome your input.
Thanks again, kind regards.
After visiting the "Step-Thru" forum, I am very intrigued with the 2018 Kalkhoff Image Advance B8 due later this year.
If you have specific thoughts on the Cannondale Mavaro model referenced above, I welcome your input.
Thanks again, kind regards.
Grace makes a model that is similar looking but has a rear gearless hub motor and a Pinion front transmission. I was actually considering buying a Kalkhoff traditional bike that had a Pinion transmission to convert to a fast eBike with selected components but just haven't got around to it.
http://www.grace-bikes.com/en/bikes/urbanic/
They actually made some demo models with a 2000W motor that was capable of pedelec speeds over 55kph/35mph. I think it was shelved because of Europes low power & slow speed regulations that aren't really a good fit with the more suburban riding in the US.
I have both Bosch and Yamaha mid drive Haibike models. They are very nice but the PIM prototype I ride is simply better for urban commuting. I can sustain a speed of 25mph easily on the PIM which even with the speeds limits of the Bosch and Yamaha "unlocked" it's very difficult to sustain that speed because so much of the motors torque is lost thru the drive train (if you running on say a 44T front sprocket and an 11T rear 75% of the torque is lost just due to the gear ratio). A hub drive's torque is delivered directly to the rear wheel so while tyipically they have a lower peak torque than the mid drives as faster speeds they put more power to the rear wheel in reality. If you spend most of riding time below 20mph the mid drives are wonderful. I just tend to like to ride fast when I'm commuting because time is money when you are trying to get to work.
http://www.grace-bikes.com/en/bikes/urbanic/
They actually made some demo models with a 2000W motor that was capable of pedelec speeds over 55kph/35mph. I think it was shelved because of Europes low power & slow speed regulations that aren't really a good fit with the more suburban riding in the US.
I have both Bosch and Yamaha mid drive Haibike models. They are very nice but the PIM prototype I ride is simply better for urban commuting. I can sustain a speed of 25mph easily on the PIM which even with the speeds limits of the Bosch and Yamaha "unlocked" it's very difficult to sustain that speed because so much of the motors torque is lost thru the drive train (if you running on say a 44T front sprocket and an 11T rear 75% of the torque is lost just due to the gear ratio). A hub drive's torque is delivered directly to the rear wheel so while tyipically they have a lower peak torque than the mid drives as faster speeds they put more power to the rear wheel in reality. If you spend most of riding time below 20mph the mid drives are wonderful. I just tend to like to ride fast when I'm commuting because time is money when you are trying to get to work.
There are smaller "value oriented" brands like Magnum, Juiced, FLC, & Rad that have pretty good bikes with component groups that tend to match their value goals. I believe the best of the value oriented brands is PIM as their component groups tend to be a bit higher end and they engineered their own hub motor that is pretty powerful. For the most part they will either have geared or gearless hub motors because integration of a mid-drive motor is more costly at lower volumes so the larger OEMs like Giant, Trek, Specialized will tend to go with mid-drives. The best off-road enthusiast bikes will be exclusively mid-drives for obvious reasons that I have touched on.
You seem to be looking at high quality brands like Kalkhoff and Cannondale which should also include Bulls, Haibike, R&M, etc. You can get a great bike from any of these companies but the price will be higher as they do have more infrastructure to support (down the road that will likely be a good thing especially if you go with a mid-drive eBike). Strommer is a very high end brand that utilizes gearless hub motors because they understand the benefits of that technology in fast pedelecs as I think Grace does as well. Don't go with a mid-drive just because so many in the industry "claim" it's the best technology - mainly these motors comply with European low power regulations while providing adequate performance.
You seem to be looking at high quality brands like Kalkhoff and Cannondale which should also include Bulls, Haibike, R&M, etc. You can get a great bike from any of these companies but the price will be higher as they do have more infrastructure to support (down the road that will likely be a good thing especially if you go with a mid-drive eBike). Strommer is a very high end brand that utilizes gearless hub motors because they understand the benefits of that technology in fast pedelecs as I think Grace does as well. Don't go with a mid-drive just because so many in the industry "claim" it's the best technology - mainly these motors comply with European low power regulations while providing adequate performance.
JRA
Well-Known Member
I would be concerned with the condition of the battery on a three year old bike. If it hasn't been kept in a constant state of charge it is a gamble. I would specify a warranty condition even at the low price you have negotiated as a replacement battery would probably cost close to $1k.
I think the entire ebike industry needs to adjust to inventory life of the batteries. You would think there is a way to inventory batteries and bikes separately such that batteries are always sold within a time interval of say 18 months from the date of mfg. The bikes themselves obviously don't suffer degradation from being in inventory.
Thank you, JRA. No need for concern about the warranty issue -- I brought that up during negotiations with the bike shop owner and he said he'd treat the bike as new, starting the warranty on the date of purchase. This is a longstanding business with a good reputation in the bike community, so I have every confidence in his representation. Of course, I would also insist that this representation be noted on receipt for future reference as well.
JRA
Well-Known Member
My first lithium duct tape battery failed to re-charge due to going below the BMS threshold due to not keeping a good enough eye on it over the winter. Granted this was about 8 years ago and battery tech has come a long way but for sure ever since I have done better.
Ken's idea is a good one but for one factor, the speed at which the e bike industry is moving forward and the every year changes to battery configurations to me means trouble down the road. Depending on how long the manufacturers plan to support the older models that is. If they just build a percentage extra every model year if you go to buy one 4 years later when yours wears out what condition will the new unused battery be in if it is not maintained properly?
Sorry to take this off track OP, glad you are getting the warranty.
Ken's idea is a good one but for one factor, the speed at which the e bike industry is moving forward and the every year changes to battery configurations to me means trouble down the road. Depending on how long the manufacturers plan to support the older models that is. If they just build a percentage extra every model year if you go to buy one 4 years later when yours wears out what condition will the new unused battery be in if it is not maintained properly?
Sorry to take this off track OP, glad you are getting the warranty.
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