Aventon Aventure Pedal Assist vs. Upgraded RadRover

[bluetick]

I've been riding a RadRover with an upgraded 35 amp controller and "true" 750 watt motor for the last couple of months. When Aventon launched the Aventure it didn't just seem like a RadRover killer, it seemed like an upgraded RadRover killer. So, I bought one. I've been putting them head-to-head and, honestly, while I love the Rover, the Aventure is amazing. But the pedal assist is so different between the two bikes, I thought I'd share my observations.

The pedal assist on the upgraded Rover is highly customizable. This is a key benefit of the KT controller. I have the pedal assist set conservatively and the peak watts set to about 1200. This means PA1 draws about 90 watts, PA2 draws about 210, PA3 draws about 350, PA4 draws about 660, and PA5 draws the maximum.

I find these settings perfect for my riding style and level of fitness. I can maintain 15 mph on level ground in PA1, but it takes effort. This is what passes for exercise in my life. In PA2, I can maintain 15 mph all day. PA3 is great for riding on level roads at around 20 mph. PA4 is for when I’m in a hurry or it’s getting hilly. PA5 is for steeper hills and short bursts of speed in traffic.

On the upgraded Rover, PA5 can handle just about any hill I throw at it. There is a short stretch of technical single track near my house. It includes a very steep technical climb, and the upgraded Rover crushes it. Before it was upgraded it was hopeless.

Also, the pedal assist on the upgraded Rover kicks in almost at once. There is a brief delay of less than a quarter turn of the crank but that’s it. This is critical for handling hill starts, as we’ll see in a moment.

Things on the Aventure are harder to pin down. My first impression is that it is very powerful. However, I took it to that same technical climb, and it failed repeatedly. This was my most disappointing moment with the Aventure.

On the road and on less demanding trails, the pedal assist feels great, but it works very differently from the stock and upgraded Rover. The Aventure pedal assist seems to be tied to speed. If it’s set to PA1, the bike will help you up to about 10 mph and then you’re on your own. PA2 helps to about 15 mph. PA3 goes to 20 mph. PA4 seems to work up to 25 mph. And PA5 just goes. What’s great about this is you can set the pedal assist for a ride and largely ignore it. It still brings max power on steep hill climbs in low PA settings until you get to the speed for that setting.

My only complaint is how slowly the Aventure pedal assist engages. From a stop there is significant delay and even while riding it takes longer than I prefer for the pedal assist to reengage after a period of coasting. I think this is the reason the Aventure didn’t get up that hill. As a rule, I’d compensate for this using the throttle. But, alas, the throttle comes up a bit short here.

On the upgraded Rover, the throttle is very responsive. If it’s on, the bike has power. The more you twist, the more power you get right up to max power with the same speed limit as the bike. This can be configured in many ways, but I like it this way. I only use the throttle in short bursts when I need all that power.

The throttle on the Aventure comes on very gently. It gets to 20 mph in a reasonable time, but the power comes on so gradually it doesn’t mitigate any issues with delayed pedal assist on steep hills. In normal use it’s fine.

 

[AHicks]

Many of the same observations here when comparing the KT based controllers to anything else equipped with basic PAS. Though I have not ridden one, my understanding is that the Ride One Up bikes may be the exception.

KT has clearly taken the time to figure out how a cadence only PAS system SHOULD work! The fact they make it so adjustable is the icing on the cake.

The big difference, the power based assist from KT, vs. speed based assist from most others, will be VERY clear to anyone that's ridden both. The power based assist allows the rider to establish a level of power/assist that does not change. That same amount of assist is available at 6mph, or 20mph. This compared to speed based assist that will have speed "steps" that when reached cause the power to drop off.

The frustrating piece, to me, is that there is no difference, mechanically, between power and speed based assist. It's ALL in the firmware/software embedded in the controller/display. Point being, it's too bad some of these design engineers responsible for this speed based programming don't get out in the real world to allow them to figure this out. That and the fact they generally set the amount of power available in PAS 1 WAY too high. They can't even get that right, and to make that even worse, they refuse to make it adjustable. That's something else they could do in the software - with NO mechanical changes required. -Al

 

[bluetick]

Many of the same observations here when comparing the KT based controllers to anything else equipped with basic PAS. Though I have not ridden one, my understanding is that the Ride One Up bikes may be the exception.

KT has clearly taken the time to figure out how a cadence only PAS system SHOULD work! The fact they make it so adjustable is the icing on the cake.

The big difference, the power based assist from KT, vs. speed based assist from most others, will be VERY clear to anyone that's ridden both. The power based assist allows the rider to establish a level of power/assist that does not change. That same amount of assist is available at 6mph, or 20mph. This compared to speed based assist that will have speed "steps" that when reached cause the power to drop off.

The frustrating piece, to me, is that there is no difference, mechanically, between power and speed based assist. It's ALL in the firmware/software embedded in the controller/display. Point being, it's too bad some of these design engineers responsible for this speed based programming don't get out in the real world to allow them to figure this out. That and the fact they generally set the amount of power available in PAS 1 WAY too high. They can't even get that right, and to make that even worse, they refuse to make it adjustable. That's something else they could do in the software - with NO mechanical changes required. -Al

I've been riding both and neither is entirely satisfying. Although, FWIW, I think the Aventure gets PA1 and PA2 right in the context of greenway riding where you need to be going slowly. The power comes on gradually and feels pretty natural. Ultimately, the speed based PAS offers less direct control over how much help you get. This is, I think, mostly annoying but in the cases where the rider's style and PAS setting overlap, it is more satisfying than frequently increasing and decreasing PAS.

 

[Brockrock]

I have an Aventon Level which sounds like it behaves the same as the Aventure. It's the only eBike I have ever ridden. I ride for regular exercise, and I live in hilly New England. I generally only use PAS 2 and control my cadence going up hills by shifting gears. I can see how folks riding only flat terrain could struggle to really get solid exercise with any PAS level, since it's really only the hills that make me work For me, this is ok, but it's also all I know regarding eBike tech.

 

[cmugler]

I bought an aventure and was very disapointed with the delay of the pas, takes about 2 pedal revolutions to engage and the throttle has a slight delay too, I think the company is overly concerned about safety, not wanting it to engage while stopped at light etc, their earliier bikes would not allow you to use the throttle until you get to 5 mph and the new ones have way too much delay, for tht reason alone I would avoid aventon bikes, can you amagine having a delay everytime you accelerate your car. most other bikes like rize have a much more natural engagement

 

[Brockrock]

I bought an aventure and was very disapointed with the delay of the pas, takes about 2 pedal revolutions to engage and the throttle has a slight delay too, I think the company is overly concerned about safety, not wanting it to engage while stopped at light etc, their earliier bikes would not allow you to use the throttle until you get to 5 mph and the new ones have way too much delay, for tht reason alone I would avoid aventon bikes, can you amagine having a delay everytime you accelerate your car. most other bikes like rize have a much more natural engagement

I am of the camp that does not mind the slight delay with PAS, and I rarely use the throttle on my Level. For the Level though, it takes anywhere from a half to one full turn of the cranks to initiate assist, and I can only guess that this has to do with where the cadence sensor is in relation to its pickup at the time. I am surprised the Aventure takes 2 crank rotations to initiate PAS. That does seem excessive, and would have to be a controller setting that you probably can’t change. The reason that I don’t mind the delay is because it puts less stress on the hub motor not having to power the bike and rider forward with little to no pedaling on the rider’s part.

 

[AHicks]

Brockrock, to help understand all the different delays, the controller is set up to count pulses from the PAS sensor as the magnet(s) pass the sensor. In the case of a bike taking a full turn to initiate power, and a PAS sensor with a magnet disk with say 6 magnets on it, the controller is set to count 6 pulses (1 turn of the magnet disk/crank) before initiating power to the motor. If the controller were set to count 3 pulses on that same set up, you would have the power coming on at 1/2 a crank rotation....

And I wouldn't worry too much about power coming on too quickly without something like that going on. They have those electrons dialed in pretty good. You may THINK the power is coming on immediately without that delay, but there's actually a time delay built in to that function to slow it down a bit - though you would never notice it.....

 

[Brockrock]

Brockrock, to help understand all the different delays, the controller is set up to count pulses from the PAS sensor as the magnet(s) pass the sensor. In the case of a bike taking a full turn to initiate power, and a PAS sensor with a magnet disk with say 6 magnets on it, the controller is set to count 6 pulses (1 turn of the magnet disk/crank) before initiating power to the motor. If the controller were set to count 3 pulses on that same set up, you would have the power coming on at 1/2 a crank rotation....

And I wouldn't worry too much about power coming on too quickly without something like that going on. They have those electrons dialed in pretty good. You may THINK the power is coming on immediately without that delay, but there's actually a time delay built in to that function to slow it down a bit - though you would never notice it.....

That all makes sense. The few times that I have used the Level's throttle only, I have noticed that it seems to protect the motor by applying power gradually at first. This is in contrast to how power is applied via PAS which is much more forceful. That's why I don't mind the need to pedal first. I figure it can only help extend the life of the motor.

 

[cmugler]

I have used geared hub motors for years and have never had an issue with one, once in a while I have heard the planetary nylon gears need replacing but that is an easy fix

 

[mjeds]

Don’t know what kind of controller the Aventon uses, But I have several e-bikes 2 came with the KT controllers and LCD-8H display’s. The other 3 came with various different ebikeling controllers and displays, s700, s900, sw900.

I was so frustrated with the ebikeling performance, my experiences being similar to your Aventon, I ended up replacing all of the ebikeling with the Rad power upgraded KT controller and displays offered by Bolton. Works on all the bikes, though new wiring harnesses were required and adapters for the Rad power specific power leads (ugh) but each bike was around $325 for all the parts and a few hours of my time to change everything out.

1 was a 750watt Bafang and the other 2 were Chinese Generic 1000w motors but with the right adapters and harnesses it was all pretty much plug and play.

 

[AHicks]

mjeds -
Big fan of the KT controllers here as well, so I get what you are talking about when it comes to frustration with some of the controllers available. Just letting you know the KT stuff is available from MANY different sources (even Amazon) and are generally WAY less money than what Bolton gets for his customized RAD mod kits! There's rarely a back order situation as well.

 

[mjeds]

mjeds -
Big fan of the KT controllers here as well, so I get what you are talking about when it comes to frustration with some of the controllers available. Just letting you know the KT stuff is available from MANY different sources (even Amazon) and are generally WAY less money than what Bolton gets for his customized RAD mod kits! There's rarely a back order situation as well.

Maybe, But I don’t have a bolton bike, never bought a bike from him, but Mark and Kyle have supported me with and IMO gone above and beyond to help me get my bikes running and dialed in, even before I purchased the upgrade kit from them.

I bought the original KT controller and Screen elsewhere for a bit less, but couldn’t get it to work (discovered that the wiring harness was different, while the connectors looked the same the internal routing was different) the seller couldn’t help and didn’t know anything about the wire harness differences. when I contacted Bolton they assisted, got me the right harness and helped me via facetime get everything up and running. 7,000 miles later no issues.

I then built a custom homemade electric tandem bike, sourced all the parts from Amazon or Alibaba and again Mark helped me via FaceTime get everything dialed in, even had some custom harness extensions made for me to match the rad harnesses but extend them for the length of the tandem. 1,800 miles on that now.

After that I decided the slight cost uptick was worth the support I received. To each their own.

 

[AHicks]

You hadn't mentioned the support recieved from them, or the need for it earlier. Agreed, you should stay with what works for you!

 

[drotim]

Don’t know what kind of controller the Aventon uses, But I have several e-bikes 2 came with the KT controllers and LCD-8H display’s. The other 3 came with various different ebikeling controllers and displays, s700, s900, sw900.

I was so frustrated with the ebikeling performance, my experiences being similar to your Aventon, I ended up replacing all of the ebikeling with the Rad power upgraded KT controller and displays offered by Bolton. Works on all the bikes, though new wiring harnesses were required and adapters for the Rad power specific power leads (ugh) but each bike was around $325 for all the parts and a few hours of my time to change everything out.

1 was a 750watt Bafang and the other 2 were Chinese Generic 1000w motors but with the right adapters and harnesses it was all pretty much plug and play.

My Aventon Level has a Tongsheng controller. Can't tell who makes the M5 display unit coupled to it. Has anyone out there successfully completed a KT controller install on a Level?

 

[AHicks]

My Aventon Level has a Tongsheng controller. Can't tell who makes the M5 display unit coupled to it. Has anyone out there successfully completed a KT controller install on a Level?

This question really deserves to be a new question of it's own, so it doesn't get buried and attracts as many rider responses as possible. My own answer is going to depend on whether or not this bike has torque sensing or if it's a conventional PAS based bike. Be glad to help if I can.

 

[bluetick]

Okay, Juiced just released a new RCS which means the old ones are deeply discounted. So, I bought one and sold the Aventure. And now that I've ridden the RCS for a while I never want to go back. The torque + cadence sensor setup is excellent. And, the huge battery is fantastic. I still love the upgraded RadRover - it is a beast.