An ebike better than a mobility vehicle?

[Roamers]

Sellers or riders?

Riders

 

[Roamers]

The pedals have never been turned in that time. Its just one less car on the road as far as I'm concerned.

Great to read she is riding it "on the road"!

 

[mschwett]

i don’t disagree with the general sentiment here - live and let live - but i do disagree with the recently-popular trend of labeling anyone who gives a s*it (or is good at something / knows a lot about something / has money) as “elitists.”

it isn’t “elitism” to not want your kids crashed into on a mixed use path by 300lb of rider+eBike or scooter going 20mph. nor is it elitism to hope that people who ride fast have the skill necessary to do so safely.

i’m increasingly convinced the right approach is a combination of use limits - speed/weight limits on paths etc - and fairly broadly defined limits to the vehicle design. the goal is to get people out of cars, period. almost everything else is secondary IMO, but that goal won’t be achieved if the bike lanes and paths are dangerous chaos.

 

[tomjasz]

i do disagree with the recently-popular trend of labeling anyone who gives a s*it (or is good at something / knows a lot about something / has money) as “elitists.”

As well you should disagree were that my intent. By your definition, I am an elitist. And I am especially as eBike kit components are concerned. But I accept there are other views, paths, and talents.

I used the term to describe those religulous views condemning users for throttle use and/or not using an LBS as their source.

There are some incredibly nice helpful riders here with eBikes out of the $$ range of a lot of others. Or if not a price issue, perhaps it's not seen as a good value. Regardless of the choices made I see the move towards eBikes as daily transport as a positive thing. Petty criticisms, which I have been guilty of, aren't of any value.
In order to end up with better bicycle infrastructure, I'm hoping ALL bicyclists can do what it seems politicians can't do. Work to a common cause free of one way, my way, or superior attitudes. Regulars can all name those folks posting here with just a moment of thought.

 

[AHicks]

i don’t disagree with the general sentiment here - live and let live - but i do disagree with the recently-popular trend of labeling anyone who gives a s*it (or is good at something / knows a lot about something / has money) as “elitists.”

it isn’t “elitism” to not want your kids crashed into on a mixed use path by 300lb of rider+eBike or scooter going 20mph. nor is it elitism to hope that people who ride fast have the skill necessary to do so safely.

i’m increasingly convinced the right approach is a combination of use limits - speed/weight limits on paths etc - and fairly broadly defined limits to the vehicle design. the goal is to get people out of cars, period. almost everything else is secondary IMO, but that goal won’t be achieved if the bike lanes and paths are dangerous chaos.

Worthy goal for sure. There is another though, maybe just as important, and that's to get people off their ass. Best way to do that IMHO, is to minimize excuses not to....

 

[tomjasz]

that goal won’t be achieved if the bike lanes and paths are dangerous chaos.

That's a concern of mine as well. But here again, there's a push to over-regulate even an MUP. I'd hate to see EU-style rules. I have enough sense to reduce speeds and not race through an MUP. Bannings based on devices, motor size, or potential vehicle speeds are counterproductive to me.

 

[mschwett]

That's a concern of mine as well. But here again, there's a push to over-regulate even an MUP. I'd hate to see EU-style rules. I have enough sense to reduce speeds and not race through an MUP. Bannings based on devices, motor size, or potential vehicle speeds are counterproductive to me.

i think most people do. unfortunately as the numbers grow, even a tiny percentage becomes problematic in a way that speeding cars on the freeway usually aren’t. the margin of error is just much smaller and the ratio of speeds much, much bigger between a person walking at 3mph and an e-bike at 28, on a relatively narrow undivided path. on the freeway that dude going 100+ isn’t even going twice as fast as everyone else, and they're separated from traffic coming towards them. i could see a path design which allowed these kind of speed differentials but it would be wider and much more costly, would require actual intersection design etc. the safe/sweet spot for simple infrastructure is definitely more like 15-20mph than 20-28mph. on flat ground, that really doesn't take much power.

i like to ride fast (usually by my own power but it doesn’t really matter in this case), hate MUPs, and avoid them whenever the road situation isn’t grossly unsafe. we actually have a lot of MUPS with bike lanes on the adjacent roads. the one i ride most often actually has signs which say "faster cyclists please exit to road." the speed limit on the MUP varies from 10 to 15mph, which makes sense when crowded but does not when it's empty. i would go 20-22mph on it.

 

[mschwett]

Worthy goal for sure. There is another though, maybe just as important, and that's to get people off their ass. Best way to do that IMHO, is to minimize excuses not to....

agreed. the costs of the automotive lifestyle are massive in every way - energy independence, pollution, land use, health/obesity, air quality, foreign policy... some of those are going to be solved (eventually) by EVs, alternative or domestic energy sources, etc, but the land use and health issues aren't going anywhere.

 

[m@Robertson]

On a roadway, they are both good choices. On MUP where motorized vehicles are not allowed, neither are good choices.

On a MUP Class 1 and Class 2 ebikes are allowed throughout the state of California (at speeds up to 20 mph, which is pretty much always too fast). Thats where the 'multi' comes in for Multi Use Path. And this is a state regulation, not a federal one, although I believe all states that follow the 3-class system have the same rules.

If anything, when I am using the MUP that rings Monterey - which is the only remotely-safe route as the roads are impassable for bicycles in many instances - throttle-only is the safer choice. After all, throttle is not a forever-on thing. It can be blipped and that blip can be coupled to a very slow-start engagement setting (which mine are set for).

Its stupid to segregate with such a broad brush. I was riding over Memorial Day weekend and I saw two children - one of whom being attended to by paramedics - that had been run down by the 4-person Surrey bikes that are rented to tourists here and completely ignored by the city council when it comes to safety regulation. And almost every day I see an analog commuter cyclist doing everything wrong with regard to brushing back tourists by riding at 15+ mph near people with the intent of scaring them into paying attention to where they are walking (which is never going to work).

Regulate the problem: behavior. Anything else is taking the eye off the ball.

 

[Roamers]

On a MUP Class 1 and Class 2 ebikes are allowed throughout the state of California (at speeds up to 20 mph,

Although I'm being redundant, just because it is allowed by regulation, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.

We are fortunate that our local MUP is not at all crowded; very under utilized asset.

 

[rich c]

Thanks “Richard “ i can always depend on you!

That wins you a ride on the ignore button!

 

[m@Robertson]

Although I'm being redundant, just because it is allowed by regulation, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.

By the same token, it also does not mean its a bad idea. Nobody likes crowded city streets, either... but thats just too bad; we live in an imperfect world.

This I think is the key to where the common divide occurs amongst riders. Some recreational riders just don't care for those who use bikes as transportation. They see ebikes as part of leisure time and expect the cycling environment to cater to this mindset.

Like it or not, you're going to have to get used to sharing. Analog USA cyclists have grudgingly come to this realization as well with regard to sharing their near-empty infrastructure with ebikers.

 

[Dave Rocks]

That wins you a ride on the ignore button!

How does that button work out for you?
Tom will still post

and even though you ignore you can still see he is posting

but not what he is posting. And you will click un ignore to see what he has said.









i

 

[AHicks]

How does that button work out for you?
Tom will still post

and even though you ignore you can still see he is posting

but not what he is posting. And you will click un ignore to see what he has said.

Not me. When somebody earns my ignore (not easy), they've proven I couldn't care less what they have to say.

 

[Roamers]

Electric Adventure :: Zero's 2023 DSR/X - Expedition Portal

In another month or so I’ll be staring at a mechanic’s bill for a 24,000-mile valve adjustment on my BMW F 750 GS. It won’t be pretty. I’ve learned to change my own oil, maintain my chain, and flush my brake fluid just to keep the labor bill in check. Considering motorcycle manufacturers have...

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If I replace the pegs with cranks and pedals good to go on MUP?

 

[mschwett]

Not me. When somebody earns my ignore (not easy), they've proven I couldn't care less what they have to say.

same. it’s a short list though.

it would be a fascinating social feature to see an anonymized venn diagram of who has ignored who….

 

[PDoz]

same. it’s a short list though.

it would be a fascinating social feature to see an anonymized venn diagram of who has ignored who….

Imagine the mod xmas party when they sing the emotional fragility ignore song.

The mental as anything version?


How can you type looking through those tears?
Don't you know that thread is old?
I can't believe you posted that on here
And you went and typed it all in BOLD!

A close encounter with a ranting man
You never knew to finish with a dot.
He made you wish that he had never been born
Just so easy , you IGNORE the lot

Hey yeah, you with the sad face
rant at my pace, and post it up
You beside the forum floor
What do you cry for, IGNORE it up