Adapting a Japanese Ebike for a Canadian mom

[Mom of one]

Hi,

No problem on working this out.

Basically you have a bike without a battery. The battery is 24 volts. If you can install another battery, in the front basket or anywhere else, the battery has to be 24 volts, to be safe, or maybe around 36 volts. I don't think you need to go to a 36 volt, for the size of motor. The way they connect the battery to the ebike is not simple. My last factory bike had a battery with two terminals, and I could put connectors on the bike for the battery. They could make it hard to connect anything but the Panasonic pack. That is something a shop would have to try. I'm pretty sure Bosch makes it hard to substitute a battery with a chip or circuit. It's easy when there are just two terminals. The battery slid into these terminals, and I put connectors in the same spot. This isn't permanent, just an experiment, so it's a little rough. Basically I could connect any 36 volt battery to my ebike in this manner. You need a battery that delivers high amperage, but that is what ebike batteries do.

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The exact battery does seem to be available from Japanese vendors. You'd have to ask them about the shipping. There is also an upgrade or larger battery, apparently. I hope you gave Paul that model number, but I'm not sure if he can build that battery. I've dealt with Rakuten in the US. They are basically a very junior Amazon, and they are a 'mall' for small stores or store fronts. How they would or could ship is something they would have to tell you. I know that a lot of ebike batteries get put in boxes and no one mentions what is inside. They are cracking down on this. They would have the data sheets on the batteries they sell. It would be up to them. I don't know what happens to the original battery, but I guess it is just a 'refugee'.

I would definitely ask those Japanese vendors who have the battery how they could ship it, and the cost. Otherwise, I think you need to find a local ebike store that is willing to try to figure out how to mount a different battery. That is figuring how to make the connections. Panasonic is a big corporation. They are the folks who tend to lock people in to their batteries and parts. But someone would have to dig around to determine the compatibility. If you could verify that the online vendors, in Japan, have the exact battery, and if the price with shipping is reasonable, that might be the surer bet. Digging around to connect a battery is great if they can determine compatibility in 10 minutes, but anything more is a gamble.

I agree that it's an interesting design, and someone could configure something like that for the US market. I'm not sure what it would take to establish the market. There is a big market for 'cargo' bikes, including the recent RadWagon.

@George S.
Hey!

Paul can provide a 24 V battery. But he unfortunately doesn't know the bike. I think they are still obscure outside of Japan. He has offered to help if I can tell him more about the battery, but i have no more knowledge and I think you are right, I should bring it to a shop and have someone look at it first.
At this point I understand the variables. I think the next amp rating for this bike is 13.8 Ah, which I would be interested in. But I am in contact with a very experienced man in Kyoto who is trying to see if he can get my battery here.
He has a blog and has been working on implementing a export plan for them for a while now.

Its worth posting in case anyone is interested in these bikes like me.
http://mamabicycle.blogspot.ca/

Second plan is to follow up with Japanese online companies, like you suggested. Its a little hard though because no MSDS exist for any of these brand of e-bikes apparently. I might try sending a data sheet for the kind of batteries inside and see what happens. I think I have narrowed it down to NCR 18650's.
I have also found a woman who has a Bridgestone e-bike in San Fran. Same concept and in competition with Panasonic in Japan. She actually bought hers used and the japanese woman she bought it from had rigged a extra battery in the basket for when the old battery lost juice. I think it was one of the early models and the battery was a bit worn. So if i do get the original some how, that may be an option to...?

Still waiting to hear back from Japan. Mmmmmmmaybe there is still a shot of getting the original, but I'm not that optimistic at this point.

Thanks George.

Oh yeah-I have been comparing my mount on the charger and bike to the German panasonic batteries that @J.R. recommended and they still have 5 contacts but use 4 pins instead of 3.I find that very curious....
J.R 50 cycles doesn't seem to be savvy about shipping just batteries. Or maybe there is some restriction in the U.K but I haven't come to them with more info yet. Still waiting to see is the original can make it to a cargo plane. Otherwise I will start asking them to look into it further. It looks to be the exact same battery otherwise.

 

[George S.]

Hi Mo1,

I think you are figuring this stuff out! That's all you can do. Something has to work. I'm surprised Paul can't find much on the battery, but that's probably how Panasonic does things.

There are a lot of fascinating pictures on that Blog. Apparently they put very young children in front, and then move them to the back? I think someone in Seattle got one of the bikes, but I'm not sure if anything came of it.

I'm intrigued by the idea of 'Village' design, as a model for housing in the US. There were people who wanted to do it around here, but then the world economy crashed. Young people, young families, have limited resources for housing and transportation. This is a practical way to use electric bikes, so I am very happy you shared this with us.

George

 

[Mom of one]

Hi Mo1,

I think you are figuring this stuff out! That's all you can do. Something has to work. I'm surprised Paul can't find much on the battery, but that's probably how Panasonic does things.

There are a lot of fascinating pictures on that Blog. Apparently they put very young children in front, and then move them to the back? I think someone in Seattle got one of the bikes, but I'm not sure if anything came of it.

I'm intrigued by the idea of 'Village' design, as a model for housing in the US. There were people who wanted to do it around here, but then the world economy crashed. Young people, young families, have limited resources for housing and transportation. This is a practical way to use electric bikes, so I am very happy you shared this with us.

George

Thanks George!
I have to say that when I lived in a bike supported city, I took all of this for granted. But cycle mobility is not only essential, I believe but a very valuable way of contributing. I have been suffering with such a lack of mobility and infrastructure is so different in Canadian cities. The safety factor is much lower and things are father apart.

This kind of bike really can have a positive impact for parents like me, so I have a hard time letting it go so easily.
The Japanese man did manage to get a bike to Seattle. The woman actually keeps it accessible for test rides as part of their agreement I believe. And he has managed to get a number of others out. Apparently sending the bike with the battery is not the same class of goods. It counts as 'battery installed in goods', which they consider to be less of a danger. Not so smart in my opinion because in terms of combustion, the battery in the bracket has no real protection from over heating. Unless it has something to do with the contacts being installed in the mounting some how...? I don't know how that conclusion was made. But anyway, getting a LEV on a plane as a whole is much easier. I wish I had known that!

And yes, like you have seen, they do start with the young child in the front. I would think that they need to be a least over 1. In the beginning apparently the front seat was a little too open and not on the right angle ect. Rather frightening. But these bikes have been around in Japan since the 80's and there have been many improvements. I think that is why the size of the battery seems so small by North American standards. Parents are just using them as transport. So distance seems to be more important then speed. You really can't go that fast on japanese city streets anyway and you wouldn't want to with your two kids strapped on. My model also has a locking system on the front wheel. So as long as the kickstand is in use the front of the bike is locked. Making getting the kids on and off much safer. There are so many things about this bike that I love.

I'm interested in Village designed communities, but I don't know much about them. I think more of those kinds of movements exist on the west coast.My sister is in Vancouver and I have plans to move out there in about a year. I know this bike would fit right in. Land transport of Li-ion batteries is much much easier, thank goodness.

Oh yeah-I spoke with my local bike store today. They sell BionX and his conclusion, without seeing the bike was that it is very likely that there is a trip switch in the Panasonic. Like you suspected. He doubted that I could use the bike without in theory removing the battery and the controller and refitting them. He said it would otherwise have a software conflict that would make the controller in-cable of reading the battery.


I will keep you posted on my progress.
I am still scheming!

 

[Mom of one]

@George S.
Hey George!
Can damage occur if I up the Ah but keep the voltage the same? Like a 25,2 V but Ah of 20 or more. You stated that the Ah is like gas, so I am presuming that its only a bigger tank.

 

[George S.]

@George S.
Hey George!
Can damage occur if I up the Ah but keep the voltage the same? Like a 25,2 V but Ah of 20 or more. You stated that the Ah is like gas, so I am presuming that its only a bigger tank.

Exactly. Usually battery packs work better if they are drawn down less. A bigger tank means using less as a percentage. You don't want to over-do it, but a lot of people complain about 'range anxiety' with their packs.

 

[George S.]

Oh yeah-I spoke with my local bike store today. They sell BionX and his conclusion, without seeing the bike was that it is very likely that there is a trip switch in the Panasonic. Like you suspected. He doubted that I could use the bike without in theory removing the battery and the controller and refitting them. He said it would otherwise have a software conflict that would make the controller in-cable of reading the battery.

If it were sold in the US I'm sure people would have a better idea how Panasonic set it up. There might be a reasonable way to rework the bike, just to get power to the motor.

I think the 'Village' idea is just a group of homes with a small commercial center, maybe a small grocery. It can be close to a city, or part of a city. You cluster the homes, rather than giving everyone a similar square or rectangular lot. Some of the land is park or green space. It starts endless arguments because you have to address parking and cars. If you remove cars, or just push them into a central parking area, it changes everything. I don't think half the people in this country can afford housing and cars, so it comes down to providing housing and transport, jobs, things to do, schools, etc.

There were a lot of ideas in the 2000-2007 period, but then the housing crash happened. People build what they can now, and the more depressed places, like where I live, have never really recovered. The thing about ebikes is that, by themselves, they don't mean much. They aren't really a transportation solution because they don't work very well or just aren't safe. There's a lot of potential and there are a small group of really devoted riders who use them for serious commuting. Vancouver might be a place where you could ride year round. Not sure. It's great in the summer!

 

[Mom of one]

Hey @George S.
I have a few possible solutions on the go. One I have been pondering is having the battery housing opened and having the cells removed. Shipping just the housing and building a new battery here.
Do you have any feedback?
my concerns would be getting the wiring right for the circuit board (?). I really don't know a lot about it aside from what I am reading. But would that be a viable option?
Or does it seem too possible to screw it up? Like the differences between what is inside the housing would be too foreign. Or is the wiring basically universal? I was thinking of having photos taken of the steps incase it was too weird in there for an ebike mechanic here to figure out. I found out that my tire valve is a bit unusal.
I'm such a novice....

 

[George S.]

I have a few possible solutions on the go. One I have been pondering is having the battery housing opened and having the cells removed. Shipping just the housing and building a new battery here.
Do you have any feedback?

Hi,

I thought of this. Basically, the cells are pretty universal, but the packs may not be designed for repair or replacement. I'd hate to think what the labor might be on both ends. I think the simplest solution would be to try to find someone who will ship a new pack from Japan. They would have to handle all the paperwork.

It's a guess what the circuitry is, inside the pack. That's the real problem. If the pack could be opened and the cells simply removed, it would be simple. But they generally use sealants, insulation materials, protection circuits, fuse links, all kinds of stuff.

 

[Mom of one]

Hi,

I thought of this. Basically, the cells are pretty universal, but the packs may not be designed for repair or replacement. I'd hate to think what the labor might be on both ends. I think the simplest solution would be to try to find someone who will ship a new pack from Japan. They would have to handle all the paperwork.

It's a guess what the circuitry is, inside the pack. That's the real problem. If the pack could be opened and the cells simply removed, it would be simple. But they generally use sealants, insulation materials, protection circuits, fuse links, all kinds of stuff.

Oh no!
This is a real puzzle. I haven't yet found an importer who will sell me one and send it because there is no paper work to be found on the battery. No MSDS exists! : (
I still have a few options...i think

 

[Joe Beador]

So can you please confirm if my take-a-way is correct regarding storing my two Epik SE's for the winter in my garage: Watch the battery condition monthly and when it get's to 1/2 power remaining, plug in the charger.

Thanks in advance for your assistance so I do the right thing for my batteries.

 

[kaki_mochi]

Hi, total newbie and I found this thread as I currently live in Japan and was looking into shipping my electric bike to Hawaii when I move there in the spring. The bike I have is that actual Panasonic one that is pictured.

So I take it I can't just ship the bike as oversized luggage on my flight? Are there any safety requirements regarding using a ship because I know packages can be sent through the Japanese post office as "surface mail."