Mike leroy
Active Member
I read the articles. The 5000 or 6000 watt eMotorBike is less than Honda PCX125 scooter at 8600 watts. But 200 pound difference. My understanding the eMotorBike will smoke the Honda
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"A groundbreaking e-bike measure..." Could have implications for all U.S.
- Thread starter J.R.
- Start date
Clearly, motorless bicycles need to be outlawed.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
Your naivete borders pure ignorance on this issue. I've logged hundreds of thousands of motorcycle miles, my current H-D dresser is 900+ pounds with a engine bigger than one in a Prius. It's lit up like a christmas tree and I still get little respect from cagers! And that's okay, my safety is my responsibility, if I can't get safe I change where, how and what I ride. I don't care how much power is between your legs, if you're in the saddle you're vulnerable to the autos, period. Once again your lack of real-world experience is showing through. For many years I taught experienced rider safety courses from experience and book-knowledge. That's all I'm going to say on the information you provided to this thread because folks come to this community for e-bike talk and you are posting about motorcycles. Not that I think you will get one anyway and that's because you conditioned me to feel that way with your posting history.
Mike leroy
Active Member
I think technology is changing faster than the law or political system can effectively adjust. The CA state government does not have a public policy for eBikes. Local towns will adjust as they see fit. In my area, the roads do not have the capacity for a vehicle that is halfway between a bike and a motorcycle. The infrastructure is already overloaded. All it will take is one tragic accident for eBikes to be outlawed in my area. Serious motorcycle accidents are a regular occurrence. I think my neighborhood has grown weary of the strain two wheeled vehicles have brought to the local community.
Mike leroy
Active Member
http://almanacnews.com/news/2013/11/22/the-troubled-beauty-of-skyline-boulevard
According to California Highway Patrol accident records, between 2003 and 2012, there have been 205 accidents on Skyline Boulevard between Page Mill Road in Palo Alto and the northern edge of Woodside (roughly mileposts 3 and 17). About half those accidents have involved two-wheeled vehicles: bicycles in 18 of them and motorcycles in 92, with fatal injuries killing two bicyclists and eight motorcyclists.
This is my neighborhood -- only 14 miles of one road. How do accidents in your area compare?
With the odds permanently stacked against the bicycle in a collision, the best course is not to have one. Flashing daytime lights are a must, she says, a small investment with big safety returns in that the lights give motorists a clue.
Mike leroy
Active Member
While we are on the subject. Try to imagine the town of Woodside -- less than 4000 registered voters. With this type of traffic! If you were one of the town council members, how predisposed would you be to outlawing eBikes, if they increase the accident rate?
The local fire dept. sirens are heard just about every weekend. The financial burden is huge for a tiny community. I am not suggesting Woodside represents CA in general. All I am saying is this is what my community faces.
I have spoken with town council members about bicycle safety. I have seen over 100 near collisions between bikes and cars. Like the reporter wrote about our neighborhood:
"With the odds permanently stacked against the bicycle in a collision, the best course is not to have one. Flashing daytime lights are a must, she says, a small investment with big safety returns in that the lights give motorists a clue."
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stevenast
Well-Known Member
I find myself agreeing with you!!! :O - sentences 1,2,& 4 above.
However, e-bikes WILL be regulated, so we may as well have an intelligent law, which this appears to be.
Mike leroy
Active Member
I think local policy can be exactly opposite of higher levels of government.
Why does CA need to be so different from federal policy? Is federal policy lacking? If CA got it right, then will federal policy be advanced by CA progress?
I see no reason why Woodside would adopt CA or federal policy. To wit, Woodside outlawed the CA law to charge 25 cents for shopping bags. Go figure! Why should Woodside shoppers not pay for paper or plastic bags? I think recycling is good and paper consumption bad.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
There you go ... if your municipality is going to make different laws, then the California law isn't relevant to you anyway, correct?
Mike leroy
Active Member
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1096
I agree with this ES post. This represents the topography in my area:
Re: California: AB-1096 to classify an "electric bicycle"
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)by Alan B » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:30 pm
This does appear to be progress in a number of ways. It is a bit of a loss, before we had 1000w, but that is a fairly small difference from 750.
The new rules would allow the new "class 3" 28 mph ebike to operate in the bike lane alongside a highway, which is part of my commute, and a useful upgrade from the 20 mph allowed before.
However climbing the 15% grade (also part of my commute), a 750 watt ebike will only make 7 mph, which is not too useful for commuting and creates a lot of unsafe traffic flowing past the rider since there is no bike lane there. To travel at 20 mph on this 15% grade with a 330 pound bike, rider and gear requires about 2500 watts (from ebikes.ca sim). 28 mph requires about 4KW.
So the power levels are out of sync with the speeds. In fact, it appears that 750W is insufficient to propel a 330 pound mountain bike setup to 28 mph even on a flat surface, it requires about 850W to do so. So to make a 28 mph ebike that is legally running 750 watts will require a recumbent or a road bike and lycra.
I wish they would stick to speed limits and not try to legislate power limits. The gradient and load capacity needs of riders vary a great deal (especially with cargo and hills), and the power needed to accomplish the job changes accordingly. A 30 mph moped is allowed 4 brake horsepower, or about 3000 watts. A class 3 eBike needs about 2500 watts to make 28 mph on a modest gradient and would only make 20 mph on a 15% grade, which is not the steepest grade encountered in my area. Speed is easy to measure from a distance, or automatically whereas power is not simple to measure.
-- Alan W6AKB, GreyBorg, BikeE, Commuter MTB, myEbikeSite
Alan B
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
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I agree with this ES post. This represents the topography in my area:
Re: California: AB-1096 to classify an "electric bicycle"
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)by Alan B » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:30 pm
This does appear to be progress in a number of ways. It is a bit of a loss, before we had 1000w, but that is a fairly small difference from 750.
The new rules would allow the new "class 3" 28 mph ebike to operate in the bike lane alongside a highway, which is part of my commute, and a useful upgrade from the 20 mph allowed before.
However climbing the 15% grade (also part of my commute), a 750 watt ebike will only make 7 mph, which is not too useful for commuting and creates a lot of unsafe traffic flowing past the rider since there is no bike lane there. To travel at 20 mph on this 15% grade with a 330 pound bike, rider and gear requires about 2500 watts (from ebikes.ca sim). 28 mph requires about 4KW.
So the power levels are out of sync with the speeds. In fact, it appears that 750W is insufficient to propel a 330 pound mountain bike setup to 28 mph even on a flat surface, it requires about 850W to do so. So to make a 28 mph ebike that is legally running 750 watts will require a recumbent or a road bike and lycra.
I wish they would stick to speed limits and not try to legislate power limits. The gradient and load capacity needs of riders vary a great deal (especially with cargo and hills), and the power needed to accomplish the job changes accordingly. A 30 mph moped is allowed 4 brake horsepower, or about 3000 watts. A class 3 eBike needs about 2500 watts to make 28 mph on a modest gradient and would only make 20 mph on a 15% grade, which is not the steepest grade encountered in my area. Speed is easy to measure from a distance, or automatically whereas power is not simple to measure.
-- Alan W6AKB, GreyBorg, BikeE, Commuter MTB, myEbikeSite
Alan B
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Posts: 5200
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
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Mike leroy
Active Member
It means eBike is not an option for me. It means I need to buy an eMotorBike for 35mph on my hills. I am looking at 4500W minimum. I was hoping to get by with a BBS02 1000W.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
Does Court test those on his alternate site?
Mike leroy
Active Member
Yes, but discussions are all hosted here.
The upshot of this legislation in my area will be the equivalent of "3 tons prohibited" signs. Substitute "eBikes" for "3 tons".
Woodside is a bicycling Mecca in CA. Woodside is a biking, hiking and horseback riding culture.
Substitute "How goes California, so goes the rest of the nation" for "How goes eBike laws in Woodside, so goes eBike laws in cycling communities".
The eBike industry set a bad precedent by making this such a high profile issue. The attempt to raise the profile of eBikes will backfire locally. I am certain eBike will not be seen on local streets in the long run.
Bike_On
Well-Known Member
Mike,
If you are determined to buy a lisenced motor cycle, then you are done on this forum, yes?
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I have not seen any ebikes in my area. Very few fat bikes. I have a fat e-bike on the way. My attitude will be fly under the radar. They have seen me on a fat bike, and will probably think it's just another fat bike. I want to give them no reason to think otherwise. I will at least be able to ride off the road wherever possible. Cars don't give the room that the law states they should. So you are only almost truly safe off the rd. It sucks, but you can't argue with a car when you are on a bike.
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