1700 miles on 2015 base Turbo (modified)

[Douglas Ruby]

I haven't posted in quite some time and thought I'd share some summary experiences. I turned 1700 miles on a ride today. This is 250 miles in late 2015, 1050 miles in 2016, and 400 miles so far in 2017. My riding is all recreational on rolling country roads and the Nashua River Rail Trail in MA and NH.

My Turbo has the original 200W motor of the base model, but has a number of performance upgrades. I am using 700x35C low rolling resistance Michelin tires and the same 11 speed gearing and 691Wh battery as a Turbo S. Top assist speed is 42 kmh (26.2 mph). I also have upgraded brake pads, added fenders/rack, and made a number of ergonomic changes to the seatpost and bars.

All in all, my Turbo has been a great experience and excels at road cruising in the 15-20 mph average speed range. Strengths include:

1. The full 200W assist helps in climbs though I am sure it is not as effective as a good mid-motor setup like Bosch or Brose. It is best at cruising in the 20-24 mph range.
2. With full TURBO assist, I can average around 20 mph even though I am 235 lbs, 66 yrs old, and suffered a major heart attack 17 yrs ago. Any average speed above 20 mph is really hard. I am a "100W rider" who averages 13-15 mph on my regular road bike. Using full TURBO allows me to average 250+W watts over longer distance at much higher speeds.
3. With the larger battery, range is fantastic. I have no issues getting 40 miles at full TURBO assist. Today, I did a 17.2 mile ride at 20 mph and used just 40% of my 691Wh battery. I have ridden 60 miles in a single ride at ECO60/70 with full TURBO on hills.
4. The various ECO levels (20% - 70%) scale linearly. If I use ECO50, I can go twice the distance as running full TURBO. Running at ECO40 allows me to ride at the same speed as my daughter for distances over 80 miles with no range anxiety at all.
5. With my Garmin Edge 1000, I can "ride to my heart rate". I can use real time heart rate monitoring, cadence, and varying the assist levels to keep my heart rate in bounds for high levels of aerobic exercise over long periods of time. I try to keep my cadence above 80 rpm (typical 85 rpm average) and below 100 rpm. With my BP meds, my heart rate wants to be between 100-110 bpm. If I find my heart rate going too high, I can hit the TURBO button or raise the ECO level in order to make things a bit easier (assuming I am not already running flat out).

The down side of my Turbo?

1. Even with a Thudbuster ST and Ergon grips, this is one HARD riding bicycle. My tire choice makes it more so. My 1971 Reynolds 531 racing bike is more comfortable! My next bike will definitely have a suspended fork and a better seatpost.
2. The handlebar controls of the 1st generation Turbo are just not good. The "Clean Cockpit" design has minimal information, the joystick and backlight fail often, and the unit is hard to see. I have augmented my handlebar displays by using a Garmin Edge 1000. I also have an old Trek bike computer for backup.
3. Between the disc brake, the torque arm, the weight of the wheel, and having to pull and/or insert the axle, service requiring removal of the rear wheel for any reason at all is a PITA. This is inherent in DD rear hub designs which are heavier and require some form of torque arm to deliver their power. The rear wheel tends to break spokes, too.
4. Power corrupts. While the full 200W assist is great and allows me to exceed 20mph on the level easily, an average of 20 mph over distance is HARD to maintain. Further, I really have to use all of my gears when climbing. Even at full TURBO setting, it is not unusual to slow down to 7-9mph in low gear (48T-42T). I find myself wishing for a Turbo S (500W) rear wheel fairly frequently.
5. The "controller and firmware" in the battery design of the bike is not good. While it may offer advantages over the "controller in the hub" design of some DD rear hub bikes (Stromer ST1), battery failures and firmware upgrades have been an issue.

Conclusion: I will probably finish up this season and start to plan on a different bike for the 2018 season. I would consider the Vado 6.0 IF the bugs get worked out and the bluetooth integration with a new Mission Control proves effective. Otherwise I will likely look hard at a Bosch based system, most likely from Haibike (available with good service locally).

 

[ragtopjoek]

I was able to ride a Turbo S with the DD motor. I liked the power of the bike but did not like the ride on rough surfaces. I can agree with you on the Hard ride. I also heard of people having a problem with the joystick control failing, which I would not like at all. But regardless of that I actually went to the dealer to order a Turbo S or X and that is when I saw the Turbo Levo FSR Comp 6Fattie. I think it was love at first sight. I took it out for a test ride on the streets, up hills and off road. When I went back to the dealer we made a sweet deal and I am so glad that I have not had a problem to date. I use a Garmin ST64 at the moment, I may upgrade to a Garmin Edge next year but for now I am just going to keep on riding.

 

[ROJA]

Great report. It's super helpful to see feedback from people who are really using their bikes and racking up the miles. I think it's awesome that you can use the bike to do longer rides with your daughter!

 

[Stan ds]

@Douglas Ruby

What kind of bugs do you refer to on the Vado 6.0? I'm considering buying one and haven't heard of any bugs.
Thanks!

 

[Douglas Ruby]

@Douglas Ruby

What kind of bugs do you refer to on the Vado 6.0? I'm considering buying one and haven't heard of any bugs.
Thanks!

Nothing specific. Given the controller bugs reported so far on Vado 3.0 and 4.0, and the fact that Mission Control integration is yet to be seen, I am pessimistic.

 

[PaulGee]

I was able to ride a Turbo S with the DD motor. I liked the power of the bike but did not like the ride on rough surfaces. I can agree with you on the Hard ride. I also heard of people having a problem with the joystick control failing, which I would not like at all. But regardless of that I actually went to the dealer to order a Turbo S or X and that is when I saw the Turbo Levo FSR Comp 6Fattie. I think it was love at first sight. I took it out for a test ride on the streets, up hills and off road. When I went back to the dealer we made a sweet deal and I am so glad that I have not had a problem to date. I use a Garmin ST64 at the moment, I may upgrade to a Garmin Edge next year but for now I am just going to keep on riding.

Ragtop - sounds like you really are enjoying your Levo. May I ask where did you purchase the bike? I want to take one for a test drive but the dealers close to me do not stock them.

 

[eagamer80]

With the exact same bike as yours and almost the same upgrades, @Douglas Ruby, I did more than 4000 miles with the bike and I agree in almost everything. I had initial problems with spokes and lcd backlight screen failing of late, but once the wheel was replaced, everything went smooth. I can say it is a quite reliable bike over all, but has of course some flaws. The original 391wh battery never gave me any troubles so far. I guess I may be around 200 cycles, but I'm ready to buy a new one any time as soon as it fails (unless covered by warranty of course).

 

[Bill Davis]

I haven't posted in quite some time and thought I'd share some summary experiences. I turned 1700 miles on a ride today. This is 250 miles in late 2015, 1050 miles in 2016, and 400 miles so far in 2017. My riding is all recreational on rolling country roads and the Nashua River Rail Trail in MA and NH.

My Turbo has the original 200W motor of the base model, but has a number of performance upgrades. I am using 700x35C low rolling resistance Michelin tires and the same 11 speed gearing and 691Wh battery as a Turbo S. Top assist speed is 42 kmh (26.2 mph). I also have upgraded brake pads, added fenders/rack, and made a number of ergonomic changes to the seatpost and bars.

All in all, my Turbo has been a great experience and excels at road cruising in the 15-20 mph average speed range. Strengths include:

1. The full 200W assist helps in climbs though I am sure it is not as effective as a good mid-motor setup like Bosch or Brose. It is best at cruising in the 20-24 mph range.
2. With full TURBO assist, I can average around 20 mph even though I am 235 lbs, 66 yrs old, and suffered a major heart attack 17 yrs ago. Any average speed above 20 mph is really hard. I am a "100W rider" who averages 13-15 mph on my regular road bike. Using full TURBO allows me to average 250+W watts over longer distance at much higher speeds.
3. With the larger battery, range is fantastic. I have no issues getting 40 miles at full TURBO assist. Today, I did a 17.2 mile ride at 20 mph and used just 40% of my 691Wh battery. I have ridden 60 miles in a single ride at ECO60/70 with full TURBO on hills.
4. The various ECO levels (20% - 70%) scale linearly. If I use ECO50, I can go twice the distance as running full TURBO. Running at ECO40 allows me to ride at the same speed as my daughter for distances over 80 miles with no range anxiety at all.
5. With my Garmin Edge 1000, I can "ride to my heart rate". I can use real time heart rate monitoring, cadence, and varying the assist levels to keep my heart rate in bounds for high levels of aerobic exercise over long periods of time. I try to keep my cadence above 80 rpm (typical 85 rpm average) and below 100 rpm. With my BP meds, my heart rate wants to be between 100-110 bpm. If I find my heart rate going too high, I can hit the TURBO button or raise the ECO level in order to make things a bit easier (assuming I am not already running flat out).

The down side of my Turbo?

1. Even with a Thudbuster ST and Ergon grips, this is one HARD riding bicycle. My tire choice makes it more so. My 1971 Reynolds 531 racing bike is more comfortable! My next bike will definitely have a suspended fork and a better seatpost.
2. The handlebar controls of the 1st generation Turbo are just not good. The "Clean Cockpit" design has minimal information, the joystick and backlight fail often, and the unit is hard to see. I have augmented my handlebar displays by using a Garmin Edge 1000. I also have an old Trek bike computer for backup.
3. Between the disc brake, the torque arm, the weight of the wheel, and having to pull and/or insert the axle, service requiring removal of the rear wheel for any reason at all is a PITA. This is inherent in DD rear hub designs which are heavier and require some form of torque arm to deliver their power. The rear wheel tends to break spokes, too.
4. Power corrupts. While the full 200W assist is great and allows me to exceed 20mph on the level easily, an average of 20 mph over distance is HARD to maintain. Further, I really have to use all of my gears when climbing. Even at full TURBO setting, it is not unusual to slow down to 7-9mph in low gear (48T-42T). I find myself wishing for a Turbo S (500W) rear wheel fairly frequently.
5. The "controller and firmware" in the battery design of the bike is not good. While it may offer advantages over the "controller in the hub" design of some DD rear hub bikes (Stromer ST1), battery failures and firmware upgrades have been an issue.

Conclusion: I will probably finish up this season and start to plan on a different bike for the 2018 season. I would consider the Vado 6.0 IF the bugs get worked out and the bluetooth integration with a new Mission Control proves effective. Otherwise I will likely look hard at a Bosch based system, most likely from Haibike (available with good service locally).

Hi Douglas, thanks for all the info you have posted. I have a turbo x I purchased last April. Question for you? Your post mentions you upgraded your orig battery

I haven't posted in quite some time and thought I'd share some summary experiences. I turned 1700 miles on a ride today. This is 250 miles in late 2015, 1050 miles in 2016, and 400 miles so far in 2017. My riding is all recreational on rolling country roads and the Nashua River Rail Trail in MA and NH.

My Turbo has the original 200W motor of the base model, but has a number of performance upgrades. I am using 700x35C low rolling resistance Michelin tires and the same 11 speed gearing and 691Wh battery as a Turbo S. Top assist speed is 42 kmh (26.2 mph). I also have upgraded brake pads, added fenders/rack, and made a number of ergonomic changes to the seatpost and bars.

All in all, my Turbo has been a great experience and excels at road cruising in the 15-20 mph average speed range. Strengths include:

1. The full 200W assist helps in climbs though I am sure it is not as effective as a good mid-motor setup like Bosch or Brose. It is best at cruising in the 20-24 mph range.
2. With full TURBO assist, I can average around 20 mph even though I am 235 lbs, 66 yrs old, and suffered a major heart attack 17 yrs ago. Any average speed above 20 mph is really hard. I am a "100W rider" who averages 13-15 mph on my regular road bike. Using full TURBO allows me to average 250+W watts over longer distance at much higher speeds.
3. With the larger battery, range is fantastic. I have no issues getting 40 miles at full TURBO assist. Today, I did a 17.2 mile ride at 20 mph and used just 40% of my 691Wh battery. I have ridden 60 miles in a single ride at ECO60/70 with full TURBO on hills.
4. The various ECO levels (20% - 70%) scale linearly. If I use ECO50, I can go twice the distance as running full TURBO. Running at ECO40 allows me to ride at the same speed as my daughter for distances over 80 miles with no range anxiety at all.
5. With my Garmin Edge 1000, I can "ride to my heart rate". I can use real time heart rate monitoring, cadence, and varying the assist levels to keep my heart rate in bounds for high levels of aerobic exercise over long periods of time. I try to keep my cadence above 80 rpm (typical 85 rpm average) and below 100 rpm. With my BP meds, my heart rate wants to be between 100-110 bpm. If I find my heart rate going too high, I can hit the TURBO button or raise the ECO level in order to make things a bit easier (assuming I am not already running flat out).

The down side of my Turbo?

1. Even with a Thudbuster ST and Ergon grips, this is one HARD riding bicycle. My tire choice makes it more so. My 1971 Reynolds 531 racing bike is more comfortable! My next bike will definitely have a suspended fork and a better seatpost.
2. The handlebar controls of the 1st generation Turbo are just not good. The "Clean Cockpit" design has minimal information, the joystick and backlight fail often, and the unit is hard to see. I have augmented my handlebar displays by using a Garmin Edge 1000. I also have an old Trek bike computer for backup.
3. Between the disc brake, the torque arm, the weight of the wheel, and having to pull and/or insert the axle, service requiring removal of the rear wheel for any reason at all is a PITA. This is inherent in DD rear hub designs which are heavier and require some form of torque arm to deliver their power. The rear wheel tends to break spokes, too.
4. Power corrupts. While the full 200W assist is great and allows me to exceed 20mph on the level easily, an average of 20 mph over distance is HARD to maintain. Further, I really have to use all of my gears when climbing. Even at full TURBO setting, it is not unusual to slow down to 7-9mph in low gear (48T-42T). I find myself wishing for a Turbo S (500W) rear wheel fairly frequently.
5. The "controller and firmware" in the battery design of the bike is not good. While it may offer advantages over the "controller in the hub" design of some DD rear hub bikes (Stromer ST1), battery failures and firmware upgrades have been an issue.

Conclusion: I will probably finish up this season and start to plan on a different bike for the 2018 season. I would consider the Vado 6.0 IF the bugs get worked out and the bluetooth integration with a new Mission Control proves effective. Otherwise I will likely look hard at a Bosch based system, most likely from Haibike (available with good service locally).

I haven't posted in quite some time and thought I'd share some summary experiences. I turned 1700 miles on a ride today. This is 250 miles in late 2015, 1050 miles in 2016, and 400 miles so far in 2017. My riding is all recreational on rolling country roads and the Nashua River Rail Trail in MA and NH.

My Turbo has the original 200W motor of the base model, but has a number of performance upgrades. I am using 700x35C low rolling resistance Michelin tires and the same 11 speed gearing and 691Wh battery as a Turbo S. Top assist speed is 42 kmh (26.2 mph). I also have upgraded brake pads, added fenders/rack, and made a number of ergonomic changes to the seatpost and bars.

All in all, my Turbo has been a great experience and excels at road cruising in the 15-20 mph average speed range. Strengths include:

1. The full 200W assist helps in climbs though I am sure it is not as effective as a good mid-motor setup like Bosch or Brose. It is best at cruising in the 20-24 mph range.
2. With full TURBO assist, I can average around 20 mph even though I am 235 lbs, 66 yrs old, and suffered a major heart attack 17 yrs ago. Any average speed above 20 mph is really hard. I am a "100W rider" who averages 13-15 mph on my regular road bike. Using full TURBO allows me to average 250+W watts over longer distance at much higher speeds.
3. With the larger battery, range is fantastic. I have no issues getting 40 miles at full TURBO assist. Today, I did a 17.2 mile ride at 20 mph and used just 40% of my 691Wh battery. I have ridden 60 miles in a single ride at ECO60/70 with full TURBO on hills.
4. The various ECO levels (20% - 70%) scale linearly. If I use ECO50, I can go twice the distance as running full TURBO. Running at ECO40 allows me to ride at the same speed as my daughter for distances over 80 miles with no range anxiety at all.
5. With my Garmin Edge 1000, I can "ride to my heart rate". I can use real time heart rate monitoring, cadence, and varying the assist levels to keep my heart rate in bounds for high levels of aerobic exercise over long periods of time. I try to keep my cadence above 80 rpm (typical 85 rpm average) and below 100 rpm. With my BP meds, my heart rate wants to be between 100-110 bpm. If I find my heart rate going too high, I can hit the TURBO button or raise the ECO level in order to make things a bit easier (assuming I am not already running flat out).

The down side of my Turbo?

1. Even with a Thudbuster ST and Ergon grips, this is one HARD riding bicycle. My tire choice makes it more so. My 1971 Reynolds 531 racing bike is more comfortable! My next bike will definitely have a suspended fork and a better seatpost.
2. The handlebar controls of the 1st generation Turbo are just not good. The "Clean Cockpit" design has minimal information, the joystick and backlight fail often, and the unit is hard to see. I have augmented my handlebar displays by using a Garmin Edge 1000. I also have an old Trek bike computer for backup.
3. Between the disc brake, the torque arm, the weight of the wheel, and having to pull and/or insert the axle, service requiring removal of the rear wheel for any reason at all is a PITA. This is inherent in DD rear hub designs which are heavier and require some form of torque arm to deliver their power. The rear wheel tends to break spokes, too.
4. Power corrupts. While the full 200W assist is great and allows me to exceed 20mph on the level easily, an average of 20 mph over distance is HARD to maintain. Further, I really have to use all of my gears when climbing. Even at full TURBO setting, it is not unusual to slow down to 7-9mph in low gear (48T-42T). I find myself wishing for a Turbo S (500W) rear wheel fairly frequently.
5. The "controller and firmware" in the battery design of the bike is not good. While it may offer advantages over the "controller in the hub" design of some DD rear hub bikes (Stromer ST1), battery failures and firmware upgrades have been an issue.

Conclusion: I will probably finish up this season and start to plan on a different bike for the 2018 season. I would consider the Vado 6.0 IF the bugs get worked out and the bluetooth integration with a new Mission Control proves effective. Otherwise I will likely look hard at a Bosch based system, most likely from Haibike (available with good service locally).

Hi Douglas, I have a turbo x Demo I purchased last April. Battery is ok now, but I saw where you went to a 691 wh batt. Did it fit right in without modification? Did the battery upgrade give you bluetooth signal? Did local dealer have to talk to batt to get it set up?
Have you tried bigger or small sprockets on the front at pedals? I would like more help out of the electrics in the 15 to 20 mph range.
I also have a Vado 3. It came in Euro config, but Specialized did fix it after I complained. I love it! It cruises easily at 15 to 20 mph even without full assist. It is fantastic on steep hills. Battery range is a little shorter. Only about 45 miles. It a nuisance since my ususal ride is about 25 miles. May look into a larger capacity battery. Unsure about compatibility? My Vado batt is SBC-B11-12.8Ah/480 Wh/ 36v. Only a minor display bug since factory rep changed config to US. When ever it powers down you lose the miles traveled, the miles since charged is much more useful.
Still hoping for mission control app.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Hi Douglas, I have a turbo x Demo I purchased last April. Battery is ok now, but I saw where you went to a 691 wh batt. Did it fit right in without modification? Did the battery upgrade give you bluetooth signal? Did local dealer have to talk to batt to get it set up? Have you tried bigger or small sprockets on the front at pedals? I would like more help out of the electrics in the 15 to 20 mph range.

Bill,

1. Yes the 691wh battery plugged right in. All original Turbo b atteries are interchangeable subject to item #2 below.
2. I did have the local dealer set the max speed to 45kph, set the odometer, and make sure it had the newest firmware.
3. It does have the bluetooth capability. Works well with current version of Mission Control.
4. I did try a smaller front sprocket (44 tooth) with the original 10 speed SRAM mech. I changed my rear cluster from the stock 11-32T to an 11-36T on day one. See the discussion below regarding this gearing. Over time, I found that the gearing was not quite optimal with 9th a bit too low and 10th a bit too high.
5. After nearly a year, I changed to an 11-speed rear cluster (11-42T Shimano Deore XT) setup. At that point, I went back to the 48T sprocket. The whole discussion around re-gearing the bike can be found here: https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/regearing-my-2015-16-base-turbo-again.7527/ My bike is now geared identically to the 2016/17 Turbo S.

10 Speed Gearing
The Turbo comes with 700x45c tires, an 11-32 rear cluster, and 48T front sprocket. I found the gearing too high and changed to 700x35c tires, 11-36 cluster, and 44T sprocket. Over the years I have found that 100 rpm is my maximum sustainable cadence, and that I normally ride between 80-90 rpm. Check out the following URL and see how it shows the difference in gear range and speeds at a maximum cadence of 100 rpm for my Specialized Turbo; both before and after I made gearing and tire changes.

http://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS&KB...44&RZ2=11,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36&UF2=2185

Note that at 100 rpm, with my current gearing, I am going 32.5 mph vs. 36.5 mph in the original setup, yet I now have a 21% lower 1st gear for climbing. Given that the pedal assist cutout is around 42km/h (26.3 mph), this is pretty near ideal for cruising in 8th or 9th and using 10th for downhill.