15 MPH E-bike and Scooter speed limit announced for NY City by Mayor Adams

[Chargeride]

No, these are mopeds treated as petrol scooters (Vespa). Registered, ensured, carrying a number plate. What Poland actually plans doing is banning the illegal Chinese scrap metal so many people here are proud of

View attachment 194889
'Stefan! Have a look over there! A Chinese crap!' my cycling mate joyfully exclaimed on one of our rides

AI never lies, your time is up speedboy

 

[TPEHAK]

I am sure drivers will hate 15 mph e-bikes on 30 mph roads

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't know what an e-bike VIN would look like

Similar to a car's one I'm sure you have two different numbers on the frame. My S-Pedelec has a serial number WSBC... like any other Specialized bike but the VIN is in several places and it starts with 55EVB...

The stop light is activated by the brake levers (Maguro MT5e).

Definitely, it is one of the requirements.

but the first (main) screen is not configurable, and shows the speed.

Another requirement is to have an operable speedometer.

@jabberwocky: We are discussing with @stompandgo whether he could bring his S-Pedelec to EU. Yes he could. However, the bureaucracy is terrible here. Let me tell you I could complete the whole procedure for my Vado 5.0 45 km/h back in 2019. My e-bike had the number plate and everything. I was paying a modest Third Party Liability insurance every year. Now, wherever I stopped, people were asking me about the number plate. I was bound to ride with traffic, which was greatly misunderstood by drivers, Police, and City Guard. Eventually, the disaster struck. Three years into the ownership, the frame cracked. Yes, the frame with the VIN. Specialized has replaced the cracked frame with a new one, bearing another VIN. My e-bike was upgraded to 6.0 by the warranty. I also got a new EU Compliance Certificate.

It all meant, my old registered vehicle ceased to exist but it was under the insurance I would have to pay infinitely if I didn't deregister the vehicle. No junkyard wanted to scrap my frame with all the paperwork necessary! Finally, I contacted some "scrap metal hunters". I had to pay the "hunter" a small fee for his trouble, and gave him the cracked frame, the broken motor, and the number plate. In turn, he signed the purchase contract as if he bought the e-bike from me. Now, I entered the documentation into the Transportation Department website and got my Vado instantly deregistered, and I also could cancel the insurance.

This sounds like a real ordeal, and it indeed was an ordeal. Now, I didn't register my Vado 6.0. I ride it as it were a regular 25 km/h e-bike, slowly and on bike paths whenever required. If I ever ride the S-Pedelec fast, it is only on road with the total absence of traffic. Even if I use that e-bike in gravel races, my average speed is below 25 km/h not to make the impression I'm cheating because I'm not.

 

[Catalyzt]

The bureaucracy in some European countries can be really shocking-- but those of us in the US would be wise not to throw rocks at it. Or only small rocks, and only playfully. Or only snowballs.

One of my ex-pat friends who lives in Croatia used to complain about the paperwork and bureacracy-- sometimes, doing something extremely simple required hours and hours of extra time-on-task... I think it was stuff involving shipping, licensing, registering, etc.

Then he got cancer. And has had outstanding medical care, all of it free. He does not complain as much these days! 13 years into it so far.

* * * *

I still prefer laws based on behavior, not capability or classification or even blood alcohol content. On the few occasions I've ridden Class III bikes in Class I territory, I'm not going any faster than the Class 1 bikers. There is bicycle, ebike, and pedestrian traffic, so it is not safe to go faster than 20 MPH on flat terrain. I wouldn't enjoy weaving through obstacles at that level, that is not fun to me.

On the road, with cars, I appreciate the extra 8 MPH. And on mixed use trails, if there's no one around...

Well, if a tree falls in the woods...? It becomes an existential question.

 

[BlackHand]

and the display must display the cruising speed at all times.

It's Bosch, of course it displays speed in the top corner of every screen. I can only speak for the Intuvia, SmartPhone Hub /COBI (that's 2 screens), Kiox, and Nyon(MY21).

 

[PedalUma]

The DMO2 is fully programable, based on the end user's needs. I have factory codes for all displays, but check out these. I am never beholden to what other's who don't know say. I can dial it all in for each particular bike, cargo mom, gravel, MTB. https://to7motor.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/T154-Display-Maunual.pdf. Suckers are stuck. And don't own or control their own bikes. I can program everything for each bike.

 

[stompandgo]

The DMO2 is fully programable, based on the end user's needs. I have factory codes for all displays, but check out these. I am never beholden to what other's who don't know say. I can dial it all in for each particular bike, cargo mom, gravel, MTB. https://to7motor.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/T154-Display-Maunual.pdf. Suckers are stuck. And don't own or control their own bikes. I can program everything for each bike.

You are the wizard behind the curtain, and I love it.

 

[stompandgo]

Similar to a car's one I'm sure you have two different numbers on the frame. My S-Pedelec has a serial number WSBC... like any other Specialized bike but the VIN is in several places and it starts with 55EVB...


Definitely, it is one of the requirements.


Another requirement is to have an operable speedometer.

@jabberwocky: We are discussing with @stompandgo whether he could bring his S-Pedelec to EU. Yes he could. However, the bureaucracy is terrible here. Let me tell you I could complete the whole procedure for my Vado 5.0 45 km/h back in 2019. My e-bike had the number plate and everything. I was paying a modest Third Party Liability insurance every year. Now, wherever I stopped, people were asking me about the number plate. I was bound to ride with traffic, which was greatly misunderstood by drivers, Police, and City Guard. Eventually, the disaster struck. Three years into the ownership, the frame cracked. Yes, the frame with the VIN. Specialized has replaced the cracked frame with a new one, bearing another VIN. My e-bike was upgraded to 6.0 by the warranty. I also got a new EU Compliance Certificate.

It all meant, my old registered vehicle ceased to exist but it was under the insurance I would have to pay infinitely if I didn't deregister the vehicle. No junkyard wanted to scrap my frame with all the paperwork necessary! Finally, I contacted some "scrap metal hunters". I had to pay the "hunter" a small fee for his trouble, and gave him the cracked frame, the broken motor, and the number plate. In turn, he signed the purchase contract as if he bought the e-bike from me. Now, I entered the documentation into the Transportation Department website and got my Vado instantly deregistered, and I also could cancel the insurance.

This sounds like a real ordeal, and it indeed was an ordeal. Now, I didn't register my Vado 6.0. I ride it as it were a regular 25 km/h e-bike, slowly and on bike paths whenever required. If I ever ride the S-Pedelec fast, it is only on road with the total absence of traffic. Even if I use that e-bike in gravel races, my average speed is below 25 km/h not to make the impression I'm cheating because I'm not.

What a you know what show.

 

[BlackHand]

I still prefer laws based on behavior, not capability or classification or even blood alcohol content. On the few occasions I've ridden Class III bikes in Class I territory, I'm not going any faster than the Class 1 bikers. There is bicycle, ebike, and pedestrian traffic, so it is not safe to go faster than 20 MPH on flat terrain. I wouldn't enjoy weaving through obstacles at that level, that is not fun to me.

On the road, with cars, I appreciate the extra 8 MPH. And on mixed use trails, if there's no one around...

Well, if a tree falls in the woods...? It becomes an existential question.

Totally agree. You ride based on conditions. I have a personal rule: I never pass a cyclist who is going the 15mph speed limit on the MUP I often use for part of my commute, UNTIL we get to an open uphill section where they inevitably slow down.

On the road, the ability to go class 3 speeds has two distinct advantages
1) I interact with far fewer cars if I am traveling at or slightly above the 20 or 25 mph posted speed limit on 95% of my commute. And the cars that do pass have to actually think about it and time it right which means they usually make a safer pass than someone just blasting by if I'm going 10mph below the speed limit.

2) the extra speed actually has allowed me to commute by pedaling the last couple years. I have had kids to take to school and just a 5 minute window to get home and hop on the ebike. Simply not possible on a class1 or acoustic bike. Coming home is often the same - there is always someone to pickup or drop off at rehearsal/practice. The faster bike greatly reduces the number of days I have to choose not to ride.

 

[stompandgo]

I ride my Class 3 at speeds way over 15mph on the MUP. I just do it responsibly. I will admit I have little patience for the earmuff rap blasting idiots.

Today, it's clear that the "visitors" have arrived and are renting bikes. No MUP awareness or etiquette. I'm riding 3 wide and screw you.

 

[Biplaneguy]

As far as I can see, New York has its own (slightly weird) laws on ebikes.

Electric Scooters and Bicycles and Other Unregistered Vehicles | NY DMV

Guidance for electric scooters, electric bicycles )e-bikes) and other devices that do not need to be registered in New York.

dmv.ny.gov

While class 1 and 2 are standard in the US, their class 3 does allow throttles but caps at 25mph (instead of pedal only capped at 28 which is more normal for class 3). Dunno why, I'm sure theres some weird political history there.

NY State technically allows class 3, but only in New York City. Throughout the rest of the state it's class 1-2 only, and only on roads with 30mph speed limit or less. By many measures, NY is the least free state in the US.

 

[ava1ar]

NY State technically allows class 3, but only in New York City. Throughout the rest of the state it's class 1-2 only, and only on roads with 30mph speed limit or less. By many measures, NY is the least free state in the US.

This is not enfoced in any way, so doesn't matter.

After aome thiking, I can state: from my personal experience I never met class 3 ebike rider who was riding irresponsibly. Fast - yes, but irresponsibly - never. Most of troubles are from moped-style unrestricted ebikes, dirt ebikes, super fast beefy standing scooters (they are often going 35+mph) and inexperienced riders on bikesharing bikes and ebikes (those who ride without helmets, not looking around, but in their phones and wearing noise cancelling headphones). All other folks, fast or slow, don't really create much problems on MUP at all.

I just had a minor incident recently with an electict CitiBike rider (class 1 ridesharing bike in NYC) - he decided to make left turn from most right side of the bike lane without even looking back... I was able to almost avoid the contact by emergency braking, so no major damage, however I didn't notice I lost my dashcam there, so the incident costed me $300+ for the new one. Since then, those ridesharing folks are those who I am overtaking VERY carefully - they are totally unaware of surrounding's and completely unpredictable.

 

[mschwett]

Exactly. Define the classes, license and registration requirements at the Federal level. Let the states decide how to implement them, and where they are allowed to ride. Include the analog bikes. Either that, or drop everything and deal with the casualties. This Rorschach Test of laws, rules, and regulations is a mess, and only serves to piss everybody off.

it’s a bit of a lose-lose - the right wants “states rights” and local control and believe the federal government shouldn’t have any power at all, really. the left is generally overprotective and favors restricting things that might have a chance of being dangerous. the result is a hodgepodge of over and sideways regulation.

i will point out, however, that MANY of the regulars on this forum argue strongly against restricting the bikes themselves, and in favor of behavior / speed limits. well, here they are. if you don’t restrict the vehicles enough, this is what you get.

 

[mschwett]

There are people completely happy with 15mph and 20mph feels a bit too fast for them. But to be honest both 15mph and 20mph suck. It means when you will use the roads the cars will crawl 15 mph or less behind you and your 20 miles commute will take 2 hours one way instead of 1 hour or so which means people are not going to use ebikes anymore and will use cars instead. Trust me, you do not want to commute 20 miles or more on 15mph bicycle everyday or ride it on the roads with 25-35 mph speed limit. More traffic jams are coming.

i doubt a lot of bike commuters commute 20 miles. and unfortunately only about one percent of people commute by bike on NYC, so the impact on traffic is going to be negligible.

 

[ava1ar]

i doubt a lot of bike commuters commute 20 miles. and unfortunately only about one percent of people commute by bike on NYC, so the impact on traffic is going to be negligible.

Even 1% of NYC commuters is large number. Do you have a link to source of this - very interested how they count it - I never seen any automatic riders couting systems around or in NYC.

Also, distance is not a biggest issue - biggest issue is the Hudson River, which separates NYC from New Jersey, where lots of commuters are coming from. And there is only single (!) way to come to NYC by bike from New Jersey (not counting Staten Island and 50 miles roundtrip rides) - George Washington Bridge connecting upper Manhattan to New Jersey. That is it. It is 10 miles from downtown Manhattan and if you leave in i.e. in around Jersey City and work downtown (right across the river) you have 3 options: ride 20 miles (up to the bridge and down to downtown), take bike to the ferry (for extra money) or to the train (not permitted at pick hour). There are two tunnels, but bikes and pedestrians are not allowed there. So long, bike commute for many, even if they want.

When I was buying a house, I knew all this, so I pick the right spot about 3-4 miles from George Washington bridge, so I can do it. But hw many more can't?

 

[BlackHand]

@ava1ar

NYC DOT - Bike Network and Ridership

 

[mschwett]

Even 1% of NYC commuters is large number. Do you have a link to source of this - very interested how they count it - I never seen any automatic riders couting systems around or in NYC.

Also, distance is not a biggest issue - biggest issue is the Hudson River, which separates NYC from New Jersey, where lots of commuters are coming from. And there is only single (!) way to come to NYC by bike from New Jersey (not counting Staten Island and 50 miles roundtrip rides) - George Washington Bridge connecting upper Manhattan to New Jersey. That is it. It is 10 miles from downtown Manhattan and if you leave in i.e. in around Jersey City and work downtown (right across the river) you have 3 options: ride 20 miles (up to the bridge and down to downtown), take bike to the ferry (for extra money) or to the train (not permitted at pick hour). There are two tunnels, but bikes and pedestrians are not allowed there. So long, bike commute for many, even if they want.

When I was buying a house, I knew all this, so I pick the right spot about 3-4 miles from George Washington bridge, so I can do it. But hw many more can't?

the census bureau measures this fairly often. although cities do local counts, those can’t tell to what % of commuters use what mode because you don’t really know how representative the various points checked are.

it’s actually up to 1.7% in NYC.

 

[Chargeride]

The problem with making ebikes part of a transport strategy is aint no one going to work on an ebike when theres nowhere to safely leave it or its pissing down or when you have those winters where even Santas sleigh is stuck.

 

[stompandgo]

it’s a bit of a lose-lose - the right wants “states rights” and local control and believe the federal government shouldn’t have any power at all, really. the left is generally overprotective and favors restricting things that might have a chance of being dangerous. the result is a hodgepodge of over and sideways regulation.

i will point out, however, that MANY of the regulars on this forum argue strongly against restricting the bikes themselves, and in favor of behavior / speed limits. well, here they are. if you don’t restrict the vehicles enough, this is what you get.

Agreed in principle. I'm not going to get into politics here. I come here for relief from that.

I absolutely believe in Federalism, and do not like big government interfering where they really have no need to. On the other hand, this cornucopia of e-bike laws/orders/government intrusion is just a complete mess, and it's getting worse. Saying that it doesn't matter because "it's not enforced" just begs the current laws to be abused, and classes of riders to be discriminated against.

What I would like to see is a Federal agency, like the DOT, define the e-bike classes for the US market. It's no different than requiring helmets be DOT approved. There should be at least one class above Class 3 that defines high power or unrestricted bikes. I would also like to see the DOT or a similar agency define the types of terrain that e-bikes can be ridden on. The DOT just defines the framework, but each state writes their regulations against this framework. These could range from no regulation at all, to specific regulation for specific things. For example, if Oregon wants to keep e-MTB's off of endangered trails, they can. If Alabama doesn't have any, they don't need to.

The problem with enforcing behavior by only enforcing behavior with no laws behind it is that it is impossible to enforce. You might as well have no laws at all. A case can be made for that. It can all work well as long as riders are responsible. Unfortunately, the general e-bike community has proven themselves to have plenty of irresponsible riders. Just search Youtube. Just stand on the side of 8th Avenue in NYC and watch.

 

[ava1ar]

The problem with making ebikes part of a transport strategy is aint no one going to work on an ebike when theres nowhere to safely leave it or its pissing down or when you have those winters where even Santas sleigh is stuck.

Valid point. For NY though in case of commuting the situation is better now - lots of companies offer some kind of bike storage and even showers. For running errands though the things are still bad - very unsafe to keep bike outside for any long time no matter what lock is in use. Oonee offers some secure bike storage around NYC, but it is not sufficient by any means - we need 10x of what they have to consider this a valid option, but it is not possible, since they are free to use and company need to make money to expand. Only if city would care and finance them instead of spending every cent on car needs

Regarding winters - they are not that bad at all in NYC last years - global warming makes it impact. Very little snow, no road/bridge closes. Impact still there, but pretty minimal.