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As a recreational rider never felt I needed a power meter (although the tech intrigues me) so not sure what average power may be needed for my routes or what is realistic to expect in terms of sustained power from me or the motor. I do have some range anxiety as I ponder which bike and drive...

Can your Addict eRide with X-20 and ~236Whr battery make a ride like that providing 100W assist on the climb or would that require an extender battery?

Thanks, the additional context of 6000 vertical is super helpful reality check. Does the 80% system efficiency you mention include battery derate/losses plus motor losses? That is more in line with my initial assumptions but the 65% efficiency being mentioned for the TQ had me rethinking about...

Great appreciate all the responses and help wrapping my head around some of the concepts. I think I am getting it but let me summarize a few things to make sure. Assuming a 70 kg rider on a 10 kg bike climbs an 8% grade at 8 mph (3.58 m/s), the total power required is approximately 250 W...

Like choosing a cadence for mid drive could one choose a average speed for doing the calculation (say 10kmh)?

Very helpful, thanks. Any idea of how the Mahle X-20 drive compares (not sure what value you use for cadence on a hub drive...)

That looks more like an average efficiency of 60-70% which should show up in real world testing of battery range. Anyone know the approximate average efficiency of the X-20. About the same, better, worse?

Wow, a ton of useful information in this report. Thanks for sharing!!

Ditto, and Calcoaster thanks for the comparison data you provided.

Thanks. 90% would be impressive. Looking forward to your upcoming reviews. And yes, comparing range can be difficult when you can't really measure Whr or Ahr or access the BMS data.

I am guilty of gross oversimplification when I asked the question about power requirements and was hoping for a simple ball park answer. I greatly appreciate the responses I received.

Anyone know the ballpark efficiency (Power out/Power in) of the TQ40. I read that the downside of the Harmonic Drive is efficiency at the lower end of the range. Thanks to TRW I understand the TQ motor is unique and curious to learn if the benefits of the TQ come with a cost of lower...

Thanks, I was wondering if there was a flexible element and if so the long term durability of that.

Ran across the following video, helped me better understand how a Harmonic Drive works .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlnNj9F37MA

Thanks, very helpful. I am able to grind up 10% grades at 5mph which implies I am capable of putting out~200W. So sounds like with a X-20 bike like the Addict eRide I should be able to manage 10% grades no problem as long as I maintain some speed. That clears up a concern I had about getting...

Very interesting. So in practice does this mean that if you have speed (>8mph) when approaching a steep grade (10% grade) and the rider has the ability to output 150W that the Mahle will be able to match that 150w to provide the ~300W required to maintain the speed up the grade?

In Yako's recent review , he mentioned that in order to make the TQ40 narrow enough to fit a standard bottom bracket housing, that TQ replaced one of the mechanical clutches with a software clutch. That also sounds ingenious although I am not sure how that actually works?

Yes it was your reviews of the Gain/ X20 that convinced me (almost) to pull the trigger on the Addict eRide. The lingering concern was battery range (236whr for the Addict) and hill climbing assist. Its mountainous where I live and 10+miles climbs of 6-8%+ are common . I can still crank up...

Very interesting thanks.

Wow, that's amazing. TQ doesn't publish official sound level but what I have read is ~50dB at riders ear level under moderate load, about the same as X-20.