Help between Verve+ 4s Gen 2, Electra Vale Go! 9D EQ/EQS, Medio T9

[lisak]

I'm purchasing my first eBike. I am a 62 year-old female wanting to use it to join my husband on his bike rides and for casual exercise. He usually rides 30-35 miles a couple of times a week in city roads and bike paths, so it will be mostly for exercise and recreational riding (although I don't expect I'll be ready for a 30 mile ride for a bit!). I'm in fairly good physical condition but have bad knees which has kept me from riding a regular bike for quite a few years now.

Looking at something that will have me sitting fairly upright and just be comfortable and fun to ride, but I want something that is also reputable and high quality, that I can have serviced at a dealer near me. After stopping by a few places I'm looking at:

- Electra Vale Go! 9D EQ or potentially EQS (it is on close out so prices are around $2500 vs $3500)
- Trek Verve+ 3 Gen3 ($3600) -
- Trek Verve+ 4s Gen2 ($2000) - another one that is on closeout so significantly reduced price
- Gazelle Medio T9 ($2900)

I rode the Gazelle last year and liked it - still need to test ride the others (it's been raining here) so much of this is just based so far on research and what is available in the shops near me. The Vale 9D EQS and Verve+ 4s Gen 2 both go to 28 mph assisted but I guess I'm not even sure if that is something someone like me would ever use, so I don't know if I should look for that or not. My husband says on his regular bike he usually goes only 20-22 mph and if he does go 30 it's on a downhill anyway where you wouldn't need assist, so not sure what the benefit would be?

All of the above have removable batteries (a must for me) and Bosch systems, although it appears some of these systems may vary (at least in terms of the computer on the bike) a bit.

Are all of these really much different? Pros/Cons of any of them from anyone with first hand experience would be much appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

I’ll admit up front to being a bit biased towards Trek, as they do sign my paycheck.

Gazelle is an excellent brand which I once heard described as “ what a bike would look like if Mercedes built a bike”. I have one of their analog bikes simply because they are so well made. My only concern in purchasing a Gazelle e-bike would be serviceability, there are fewer dealers than other big makes like Trek or Giant, so getting parts or service is more difficult.

I was surprised recently when some brought a nice late model Gazelle into our shop with an electrical issue. As a Trek shop we are set up to service Bosch but Gazelle uses a different communication protocol than Trek to interface with the bike for service so we were unable to work on the bike in spite of it being the same Bosch driveline we have on our bikes.

So if you buy a Gazelle you have to take it back to a Gazelle dealer for service. Which begs the question, can you get your Bosch powered Trek serviced at a Gazelle dealer? They never mentioned this when I went to Bosch for training on servicing this stuff.

 

[lisak]

I’ll admit up front to being a bit biased towards Trek, as they do sign my paycheck.

Gazelle is an excellent brand which I once heard described as “ what a bike would look like if Mercedes built a bike”. I have one of their analog bikes simply because they are so well made. My only concern in purchasing a Gazelle e-bike would be serviceability, there are fewer dealers than other big makes like Trek or Giant, so getting parts or service is more difficult.

I was surprised recently when some brought a nice late model Gazelle into our shop with an electrical issue. As a Trek shop we are set up to service Bosch but Gazelle uses a different communication protocol than Trek to interface with the bike for service so we were unable to work on the bike in spite of it being the same Bosch driveline we have on our bikes.

So if you buy a Gazelle you have to take it back to a Gazelle dealer for service. Which begs the question, can you get your Bosch powered Trek serviced at a Gazelle dealer? They never mentioned this when I went to Bosch for training on servicing this stuff.

Yes I had thought about this. There is only one shop near us that carries Gazelle, but several that carry Trek or Electra

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi Lisa,

• Electra Vale is something you should avoid. It is an old school design (it's not a compliment!) based on cheap components and outdated technologies.
• While Gazelle can make good e-bikes, Medeo T9 is not one of them. It has a small battery, which is mounted as a hump on the main tube. Old design, cheap components
• The weakness of Trek Verve+ 4s Gen2 is the e-bike is outdated (Bosch Gen 2) and has a smallish battery. The design is already outdated by several years.
• Trek Verve+ 3 Gen3 costs that much because it is the latest e-bike with modern components, new e-bike system and a good battery. What is the battery size expressed in Wh on the model you had a look at?

Regarding the 28 mph, please bear in mind no-one guarantees you would ever achieve that speed. Class 3 (28 mph) just means the motor would only cut off at that speed if you ever reached it Usually, be glad if you can ride at 20 mph on a Class 3 e-bike; it is because the air drag will limit your top speed.

Please never promise you would limit yourself to short rides. Your appetite for longer rides would grow. That's why your e-bike should have a large battery (expressed in Wh). One of my riding mates, a 65-yo petite female easily makes 50 mile rides on a Bosch equipped e-bike similar to a Trek Verve. She is always returning on the battery (625 Wh). She wouldn't be able to do it on a smallish battery that any of the three e-bikes except the more expensive Verve has.

As Fritz said, you need a dealer nearby so you can choose the right frame size, do a demo ride, and have a post sales support and service. Of all your choices, the Trek Verve+ 3 Gen3 looks the best. Think of purchasing an e-bike as of a new cell phone. Would you buy an old product with buttons? (Electra). Would you buy a smartphone that is several years old only because the price is right?

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

If long rides are in the future ask about range extenders. These are a bike specific factory kit which include a second battery, usually slightly smaller, and the hardware to mount and connect it. There is often a software update to assure it operates as intended so it’s best to have the dealer install it.

these are not available for all bikes and can be quite expensive but add to the flexibility of the bike. If the dealer doesn’t know about these kits you might consider finding a dealer who actually knows his stuff.

regarding Stefan’s comment about out of date bikes: there is no interchangeability between Bosch’s older equipment and the latest generation of drives. While the equipment is made to last, Bosch claims motors are good for 50,000km, faults, thumps and crashes, do happen and you don’t want to find your five year old bike useless because some minor part can’t be sourced. The same goes for most drive brands, so buying the latest and greatest assures parts availability much longer. Our earlier products are already difficult to get drive spares for so if you keep your bikes for a long time it’s something to keep in mind,

 

[lisak]

Hi Lisa,

• Electra Vale is something you should avoid. It is an old school design (it's not a compliment!) based on cheap components and outdated technologies.
• While Gazelle can make good e-bikes, Medeo T9 is not one of them. It has a small battery, which is mounted as a hump on the main tube. Old design, cheap components
• The weakness of Trek Verve+ 4s Gen2 is the e-bike is outdated (Bosch Gen 2) and has a smallish battery. The design is already outdated by several years.
• Trek Verve+ 3 Gen3 costs that much because it is the latest e-bike with modern components, new e-bike system and a good battery. What is the battery size expressed in Wh on the model you had a look at?

Regarding the 28 mph, please bear in mind no-one guarantees you would ever achieve that speed. Class 3 (28 mph) just means the motor would only cut off at that speed if you ever reached it Usually, be glad if you can ride at 20 mph on a Class 3 e-bike; it is because the air drag will limit your top speed.

Please never promise you would limit yourself to short rides. Your appetite for longer rides would grow. That's why your e-bike should have a large battery (expressed in Wh). One of my riding mates, a 65-yo petite female easily makes 50 mile rides on a Bosch equipped e-bike similar to a Trek Verve. She is always returning on the battery (625 Wh). She wouldn't be able to do it on a smallish battery that any of the three e-bikes except the more expensive Verve has.

As Fritz said, you need a dealer nearby so you can choose the right frame size, do a demo ride, and have a post sales support and service. Of all your choices, the Trek Verve+ 3 Gen3 looks the best. Think of purchasing an e-bike as of a new cell phone. Would you buy an old product with buttons? (Electra). Would you buy a smartphone that is several years old only because the price is right?

Thank you Stefan - this is exactly the kind of input I was looking for. I am not opposed to paying a bit more for something if the quality is there - honestly I'm just overwhelmed by looking at all of the specs and being able to compare things like motors, battery size, etc.

I also have a shop near me that sells Specialized, although did not spend much time there because the sales person was not helpful. Is there something in that line worth looking at (or others you recommend)? I'll definitely try riding the Verve+ 3 this week but would love something similar to compare it to.

 

[lisak]

Trek Verve+ 3 Gen3 costs that much because it is the latest e-bike with modern components, new e-bike system and a good battery. What is the battery size expressed in Wh on the model you had a look at?

Forgot to answer this. The Verve+3 model I was looking at was 545 Wh, with a Bosch Performance Line, 250W, 75Nm, 25km/h motor. The others are all 500 Wh.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Forgot to answer this. The Verve+3 model I was looking at was 545 Wh, with a Bosch Performance Line, 250W, 75Nm, 25km/h motor. The others are all 500 Wh.

Well, 545 Wh is not the most impressive but it is the battery that affects the price the most. Will do.

If you can find a trusted Specialized dealer, I swear a Turbo Vado 4.0 Step Through is the best bang for your money. First of all, the battery is 710 Wh and that's the biggest part of the price. The motor is stronger, too.

 

[lisak]

Thanks I will add that to my list to check out!

 

[stompandgo]

As Stefan said, most of those use the older Bosch System 2 drive unit. They are still being made, parts will be available for a very long time, and they are still sold new with a full warranty. However, they do not have the connectivity features of the current Smart System bikes. You may or may not need or want them, but you also don't know what you may be missing. As for service, it depends on the shop. Some will service bikes that they do not sell, others will not, especially the brand shops like the Trek stores. You have to ask.

I'd add the Cannondale Tesoro 2 Low Step Through to your list. Bosch Gen5, 85Nm, 600Wh, Kiox 300 display, 20mph. Lots of grunt for when you need it, but it's a Class 1 which can be ridden anywhere. It's a nice clean design with a low center of gravity for easy handling. Cannondale makes very high quality bikes, and they stand behind their products.

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

As for service, it depends on the shop. Some will service bikes that they do not sell, others will not, especially the brand shops like the Trek stores. You have to ask.

Most shops would love to be able to service everything that comes through the door. And any good shop should be able to service the mechanical bits.

But it’s the electrical systems that cause issues. Off brands, like the stuff you get off the internet are usually unserviceable at most shops unless that shop has some kind of service deal with that maker. Even name brand bikes using common drives such as Yamaha, TQ or Bosch can be difficult to service at another brand’s shop that uses those same brands of motors because of different communications protocols.

I find it very frustrating to be unable to access a Gazelles drive with Bosch’s own online software because the name on the front of the store isn’t Gazelle as I have a few dozen Bosch powered bikes on the floor that I have no trouble playing with. The bike industry needs to standardize its software, like the ODB II systems in the automotive industry.

 

[lisak]

Ok maybe a dumb newbie question -

What is the Bosch Smart System? The ones I'm looking at say they have either Kiox, Purion, or Purion 200.

And how does the Smart System relate to the eBike Flow app? Do they all work with that or only the ones with Smart System and which ones are those?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

An e-bike with a Purion 200 or Kiox 300 is Smart System and will work with the eBike Flow App.

 

[stompandgo]

Ok maybe a dumb newbie question -

What is the Bosch Smart System? The ones I'm looking at say they have either Kiox, Purion, or Purion 200.

And how does the Smart System relate to the eBike Flow app? Do they all work with that or only the ones with Smart System and which ones are those?

If it's Kiox or Purion without a number after it, that's System 2. Those use the eBike Connect app.

Smart System is the latest system controller version that has greater connectivity features, over the air updates, and drive unit customization. These use the eBike Flow or Flow+ app.