stompandgo's Pinarello Nytro E5 Allroad build thread

stompandgo

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
My replies were copied from the original thread here.

Pinarello e-bikes are called Nytro. Currently, they all use the TQ HPR50 mid drive unit. They offer this line for road and gravel, plus they have a single urban flat bar bike called the E5 Allroad that's based on the Grevil E5 frame. Pinarello has decided to cease distribution of this bike in the US, so they are on closeout. I work for a Pinarello dealer, so I was able to create a package deal, directly with the Pinarello rep, that I could not refuse.


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The package includes one range extender and the TQ service dongle. I'm buying it in the box and I'll do all the assembly myself.
 
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Weight is supposed to be around 11kg (25#) in a 530, but I'll have a 550, so a little more. The DU is a TQ-HPR50. The main battery is an integrated 360Wh. The range extender is a bottle style 160Wh.

The bike is Di2 ready, which is something I will do in the future. It comes with Deore.
 
I looked at it this way. I'm riding a 55# 85Nm 600W peak bike that I really only use Mode 1 (60% assist) and Mode 2 (140% assist). Even if the Nytro weighs 30#, It's a 50Nm 300W peak bike where Mode 1 is 60% assist and Mode 2 is 140% assist, with the ability to tune for both assist level and dynamics. The riding experience will be very different, but I'm hoping that the range will be long enough to minimize riding with the assist off.

The range extender works a little differently than the Bosch system. It depletes the RE first, then the main battery.
 
I dug deeper, and found that the 25# quote was for an E9, which is a road bike with a lighter frame. Typical crap review site. That would make the E5 frame somewhere around 1# heavier, then add lights, fenders and rack. That was also for a 530, not a 550. I think 30# is in the ballpark. The RE adds 950g, around 2#. My Tesoro with the second battery weighs 62#. If the actual weight is in the ballpark, loaded, it would be about half the weight of the Tesoro. That's what my back of the envelope math is based on.
 
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The bike came assembled in the box. I was stunned as every Pinarello that I've built so far required half a day to assemble. It's not set up to ride yet as I have to pull the fork to run the TQ remote cable. The weight is 33.2 pounds, 55cm, no pedals, out of the box.
 
That’s a really cool bike, Chris.

I don’t think I understand how the front of the rack is attached. Is it really using the fender for support? Or is the rack entirely attached at the two points on the seat stays?

And, second, I love the way the frame, etc. looks, but the whitewall tires really don’t do it for me. :)

Anyway, cool!
The picture is deceptive. The fenders attach to the frame via the rack at the rear, the seat stays at the "brake bridge", and at the bottom of the seat tube near the bottom bracket. The fenders and rack are SKS. The rack is aluminum and the fenders are that SKS plastic/aluminum sandwich material.


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The tires are Vittoria Radonneur 700x40. I'm with ya with the reflective sidewalls, but most city bikes come with them. The flash lit them up, so they are not as garish as they look, but my next pair will probably be blackwall.
 
Deore 11 speed rear derailleur 1x, 38T front, Deore XT 11-42 cassette. I'm going to try and get out on it on Tuesday for a short run before I head up for stage race weekend. There is no doubt in my mind that I'll be going Di2 at some point, but it might be sooner rather than later, as the shop has a takeoff XT set. The Allroad comes with the TQ Smart Box, which is a TQ connectivity box for lights, Di2, AXS, and other accessories. The Supernova head and tail lights are hardwired into one of the ports. To connect Di2, I'll need the TQ Di2 cable, the Shimano CAN adapter, and some length of EW-300 E-Tube wire to connect to the rear derailleur. Then it becomes whether I'll go 11 speed or 12 speed. Both systems can connect to a wireless shifter. That would end up as the rear derailleur powered off of the main/extended battery, and the shifter with two coin batteries. Going 12 speed means a new cassette and chain as well. I need to take a few long rides before deciding on gearing. The TQ is such a different animal than the Bosch Performance Speed. I expect it to ride completely differently.

I plan to ride it everywhere that I rode the Tesoro, and then some. I won't know about range for a bit.
 
Looks great! I guess the remote is an add on? Does it wire to the drive unit or to the controller on the top tube?

The chainring looks like maybe a 38? I get the feeling that might be a little small for your riding conditions and style...

Weight seems pretty good considering the frame/fork are the only carbon components. Lots of flexibility if you decide to go weight weenie on it later on.
The remote is a TQ option, as you can do everything from the display on the top tube. It connects directly to a port on the display, and is wired. This is one place where Bosch is ahead of TQ, as the Bosch mini remote is Bluetooth.

The chainring is a 38, and I knew that before purchase. If I run out of cassette, the chainring is an FSA Megatooth. There looks to be room for at least a 44T. I'll have to check QBP as they are the US dealer portal for TQ. I'm planning on going Di2 at some point.
 
In the process of installing the TQ remote cable, I discovered that whoever built the bike made several mistakes. The TICR cable and hose routing through the headset was done wrong, the expander plug was cranked to the max and not set up in the steerer properly, and there should have been another spacer on top, which is why the expander bolt was cranked to the max. Sigh. Changing the routing means disconnecting and bleeding the brakes. I think I have it good enough for a ride without doing this, so when I return from the race I'll take it for a spin on the trail. I'll order up the Di2, since it will take a few weeks, and fix the routing when I install it, as the shifter cable has to go. The boss at the shop offered to let me do the work there on his dime, which was nice.

I've decided to upgrade to a Shimano Deore XT 12 speed setup:

RD-M8260-12 Deore XT Di2 e-bike rear derailleur (runs off of the main battery through the CAN adapter)
SW-M8250-R Deore XT right side shifter with clamp (two coin batteries)
12 speed cassette (not sure which one yet as I haven't pulled the cassette to see if the freehub is Microspline or HG)
EW-300 Di2 cable for the rear derailleur
KMC X12 chain 136 link
EW-EX310 Shimano CAN adapter (enables the TQ system to talk to and run Di2)
TQ 339296.01 Smartbox to CAN adapter cable (connects the Smartbox to the CAN adapter)

Lots of fun yet to come.
 
I took my first ride today. TLDR: it's very different than the Tesoro, in mostly good ways.

I recently added the TQ remote, and when I had the fork off, I noticed that whoever built the bike ran the brake hoses wrong. There is a compression ring with cutouts for hoses and cables. It sits on top of the upper headset bearing. This is a key piece of the TICR internal cable routing system.

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The split goes in the rear, so that the ports are on the left and the right. The brake hoses are supposed to be run into their respective ports, i.e. left on left, right on right. Whoever built it put both brake hoses on the left, which cocks the compression ring high on the left. I was able to get the headset presumably tight, but it would loosen over bumps. I felt that this situation was good enough for a test ride, but after that experience, it has to be fixed ASAP.

Anyway, back to the ride prep. I put on the pedals first. I use Crank Brothers Candy pedals on the Tesoro and love them. For the Allroad, I found a brand new set of titanium Candy 11's on eBay for $250 ($499 MSRP, $350 from QBP). I couldn't pass them up.


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Next came the Garmin computer. I was not able to mount it to the Most square TICR stem. The top of the stem is flat, and the o-rings are too small, so I put it on the bars. I may be able to relocate the headlight to under the bars, and use an out front stem mount, but that's down the road. I added the three TQ sensors to the Garmin, and enabled the Garmin e-bike screen. That got me going. I have a lot of customization to do here. The good thing is that I was able to get power, cadence, range, and charge level immediately via ANT+ LEV. All firmware is old, and will be updated when I get the dongle.

The fit isn't quite right, and the Most saddle is just ok. I have a lot of work to do here, as well.

The first thing I noticed once I got started was how light the bike felt. If the Tesoro is an F-150 Shelby Raptor, the Allroad is a Tesla Roadster. The TQ motor is almost silent. It has very little pedal dynamics as well. That's with the factory settings, which had it set up with a 20mph assist limit. I've tried to change anything motor related with the TQ app, but all I get are errors. The TQ dongle should be at the shop when I get in tomorrow. It's probably just a region setting. I have TQ's USA dealer service number just in case.

The next thing I noticed was how much bad road juju the Tesoro suspension fork and 55mm tires took out of the ride. The Allroad rides like a carbon road bike. You don't feel every little bump in the road, but the larger ones can be startling. The carbon frame just soaks up all of the smaller ones. The handling is not race road bike crisp, but it's very, very responsive. Way better than I could have expected for an e-bike. It's fun to flick around. The tires are Vittoria Randonneur 40mm, and I have them set at 40psi per Silca. I'm going to try them at 37psi for the next ride. The Deore shifting is, well, Deore. Good but not great. With the current gearing, I spent most of my time in cogs 7,8,9, and 10. The brakes were supposed to be Deore, but they subbed in another brand I'd never heard of. They are brand new, so the jury is still ouit on them.

The HPR50 really likes cadence. From a standing start, the Tesoro pulls you back up to speed, where the Allroad takes a good bit of rider watts to get going, at least at the current settings, but once the windup is over, it cruises quite well with not a lot of rider power as long as you spin. I guess that's the headwind effect. I really like the way that the HPR50 delivers power. It's very natural, very analog bike-like. Unlike the Tesoro, nobody heard me coming, so I need to get a bell.

I did my 32 mile ride out to Skaket Beach and back. I've done this several times on the Tesoro. On the Allroad, set mostly on Eco, with a few pops to the other two settings, I had 47% of the battery remaining. On the Tesoro, with the main battery only, I'd use about the same, but a lot of it would be in Tour. I felt that I worked harder on the Allroad, but maybe that's just perception. It will take time to figure all this out.

Anyway, I'll fix the brake routing issue next. I'm looking at Deore XT Di2 for over the winter, and carbon wheels down the road. It's a beautifully made bike that I am eager to get to know better.
 
I don't know who built it, but it came completely assembled. The bars were turned sideways to fit into the box, but that's it. Both wheels were even installed. Every other Pinarello I've built from the box is in pieces. The bars have the levers installed onto the bars, with the shift cable inner wires coiled up. The brake hoses and shift cable housings are installed in the TICR stem, and it's up to the builder to trim, install, and bleed them. All cables and hoses are run through the compression ring properly. It's easy to tell, because they come through the stem left on left, right on right. The headset is adjusted and tight with no resistance when turning the bars. When I turn mine left, it pushes back to center. I'll fix it. My hope is that they are in good enough shape to reuse, and that the rear brake hose is long enough to be properly installed.

I found another cock-up this morning.
 
I got the dongle working, the app working properly, and the firmware updated on everything. The problems were due to my laptop, a 5 year old Dell XPS 15 that only has USB-C USB connections. I use an aftermarket USB-C hub for standard USB connections. I had to update the driver package from TQ, and then update the BIOS and Intel I/O firmware for my laptop to connect to the bike. Before this, I could see the dongle, but not the bike. Everything is up to date with no errors. The mystery box is indeed a Smartbox, which runs the lights and is Di2 capable. The bike was built in 2023. Once the range extender cable arrives, which should have come with the range extender, I'll update that as well. Now the TQ app does everything it's supposed to do with no errors. The maximum speed is set to 28mph, and all modes are set at default. It shows my last ride distance, where it didn't before. Within the Service Tool, I was able to turn on Walk Assist, turn off the battery light reserve, and enable display of battery level, range, power, cadence, and speed on the TQ display. That's everything that wasn't working or was missing. Now to fix the brake hose issues. I'm going to bring it into the shop and have the boss and the lead mechanic take a look at it. It may be a warranty issue, and if it is, I should do it now.
 
Cane Creek has put the eeSilk+ Carbon suspension seatpost on sale for $199. They now have it in 31.6mm as well. I'm going to check cost on Monday, but I bet this is below dealer cost. Manufacturers that sell direct as well as through distribution often blow stuff out under cost through the direct channels to boost sales. If this is the price, I'm getting one along with the #3 elastomer for the Allroad. I have an aluminum one on the Cannondale and I love it.
 
Sorry for the "new posts" blast. I copied over what I could from the other thread and deleted it.

The brakes on the Allroad are Promax F1, a Deore clone. I ordered up a brake hose kit to get ready to swap in new ones.

I'm torn on which way to go with Di2:

a) Use the Deore XT M8260-12 rear derailleur hardwired into the Smartbox that cannot be used with the 9-45T cassette which requires a mid cage derailleur
b) Use the M8250-GS battery powered rear derailleur that works with the 9-45T cassette but cannot be attached to the Smartbox

Option a) is an e-bike specific setup that runs the rear derailleur off of the main battery through the Smartbox. Right now, the only cassette that works with that rear derailleur is a 10-51T microspline. Option b) intrigues me because of the 9-45T cassette, which has two tooth steps from 9T-21T. This really suits my riding style well. The tradeoff is that I'd have to use a battery powered rear derailleur and separate charger. Either option will require new wheels with a Microspline freehub. The current setup is Deore 11 speed and the wheels are 11 speed only.

It's only money, right?
 
It's only money, right?
I really like this arrangement — you get to spend all the money and gnash all the teeth, and we get to cheer you on, ogle the beautiful finished product, and learn some things along the way.

Q: How would you define an "all-road" bike, and is that your vision for this one?
 
Wow, that 9-45 cassette looks really nice and about 100g lighter than the 11speed XT.

Does TQ support the Auto Shift or the Free Shift features that Shimano lists with the 8260? That would certainly add to the argument for the long cage hardwired one.
 
cannot be used with the 9-45T cassette which requires a mid cage derailleur
I apologise for my ignorance: I've always thought the long cage derailleur was meant to accommodate a huge cassette with a big teeth capacity. In what sense the long cage derailleur cannot be used with a smaller cassette?

I cannot fail noticing your Nytro has a pretty long stem: Isn't is a design option to provide proper Reach?

Q: How would you define an "all-road" bike, and is that your vision for this one?
I know Jeremy you don't expect the answer from me but from Chris :) As the Nytro Allroad is based on the Grevil (gravel) frame and has gravel bike tyres, it is just an "equipped" flat handlebar gravel e-bike (you can ride a gravel bike on almost anything except mountain technical singletracks).
 
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