Rivian spins out a new micromobility startup called Also with $105M from Eclipse

[jabberwocky]

I still think this whole enterprise is just a way to separate VCs from their money. I'm sure prototypes exist, and they may even sell some, but mainly its a way to spend a bunch of VC money on management and engineers. I will be amazed if the company survives long enough to sell more than a handful of the things.

Its also worth noting that this is in no sense a legal ebike. Every legal definition I'm aware of in the US requires that the pedals actually allow propulsion of the bike. For example, Virginias definition is:

"Electric power-assisted bicycle" means a vehicle that travels on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground and is equipped with (i) pedals that allow propulsion by human power, (ii) a seat for the use of the rider, and (iii) an electric motor with an input of no more than 750 watts.

This is basically an electric motorcycle with a pedal operated range extender, since the pedals are not actually connected to the drivetrain in any way.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I still think this whole enterprise is just a way to separate VCs from their money. I'm sure prototypes exist, and they may even sell some, but mainly its a way to spend a bunch of VC money on management and engineers. I will be amazed if the company survives long enough to sell more than a handful of the things.

Its also worth noting that this is in no sense a legal ebike. Every legal definition I'm aware of in the US requires that the pedals actually allow propulsion of the bike. For example, Virginias definition is:


This is basically an electric motorcycle with a pedal operated range extender, since the pedals are not actually connected to the drivetrain in any way.

Agree with all of that. But I see little evidence that the California definition of a legal ebike (similar to many other state definitions) has any impact on what's sold as an "ebike" in coastal SoCal.

For example, "Class 3" ebikes with throttles everywhere, and no shortage of Surrons and Super73s on the streets and bikeways. The e-motorcycles are usually ridden by kids obviously too young to have a driver's license.

Until they start cracking down on manufacturers and dealers who blatantly (and knowingly) break the ebike laws, the legal definition won't matter.

 

[jabberwocky]

Agree with all of that. But I see little evidence that the California definition of a legal ebike (similar to many other state definitions) has any impact on what's sold as an "ebike" in coastal SoCal.

For example, "Class 3" ebikes with throttles everywhere, and no shortage of Surrons and Super73s on the streets and bikeways. The e-motorcycles are usually ridden by kids obviously too young to have a driver's license.

Until they start cracking down on manufacturers and dealers who blatantly break the law, the legal definition won't matter.

True, but the market for those bikes isn't going to want this thing. I'm not sure who the target market would actually be (well, its VCs, but if they actually intended on selling them I'm not sure who the target market would be). The battery is physically small so is unlikely to actually store much power. Its a hub motor with all the drawbacks that entails. I'm sure it will be expensive if it ever actually hits the market. Everything is proprietary. For all their marketing fluff, every step of "pedal a generator, pass that power to the hub motor" entails power losses, so its efficiency won't be good compared to an ebike that is adding power to a traditional bike drivetrain. The purported advantages (its hard to steal! Its low maintenance!) are IMO fairly transparent bullshit.

Guess we will see. I obviously have my doubts.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I'm sure it will be expensive if it ever actually hits the market.

I see at least a niche market in coastal SoCal. We have our share of sensible people, but lots of disposable money here. Rivians are popular, and "If you've got it, flaunt it" seems to be a common philosophy. To that crowd, expensive and unique are virtues.

 

[jabberwocky]

I live in Loudoun County, aka the wealthiest county in the US, so we have our share of people with more money than sense as well. I work in high end architecture and have plenty of clients for whom spending outrageous money is absolutely worth it if it impresses their friends and neighbors. So maybe a market for this thing among those sorts, but thats a really fickle market. Those people are IME more likely to buy something conventional with an impressive name on it (like a Porsche branded ebike) than some weird new thing from a brand nobody knows. But I agree there is at least a small market for rich early adopters.

The quad delivery thing may actually be more viable than the bike, because those things don't really have any pretense about being actually pedalable and the customers would be corporate delivery companies. But thats a tiny market in the US (mainly just the big delivery/logistics companies in a handful of urban cores).

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I work in high end architecture and have plenty of clients for whom spending outrageous money is absolutely worth it if it impresses their friends and neighbors

Exactly what goes on here. Back in 2001, I heard a Colorado Public Radio interview with a winter Olympian from Vail, Colorado ahead of the coming winter games.

CPR: What do you do in Vail, Andrew?
Andrew: I'm an architect. I design custom homes here for the millionaires displaced from Aspen by the billionaires.