Riding with music: Any attempt to sync cadence with beat or vice versa?

[Jeremy McCreary]

Tap BPM Finder is the android app I downloaded yesterday after I got frustrated at the wildly divergent BPMs various websites listed when I tried to check the songs that came to mind. Free, no ads, keeps a running average as long as you tap, doesnt use any data.

The tempo app of my dreams! All I need for this project and nothing more.

Like you, I've found it best to tap out my own tempos. You really can't count on Song X being the cadence claimed online.

I can think of technical reasons why that might be common, but what matters in the end is the pulse — the tempo you tap out for yourself without thinking about it. Rare for a tune to have an ambiguous or multiple pulse.

I think we have fairly different musical tastes so I probably won't be much help.

Au contraire! Building the cycling playlist I'm after will clearly be a long, slow process. That app's gonna be a very important screening tool.

I'm pretty much in the same gen as @mschwett . Sad, but true - my senior class song was on his list (no, not Sad but True. I grew up in mullet-land so Def Leppard's hit was our anthem!).

I'm guessing ska is not your thing, but I bet a lot are around 170-180bpm and are at least nominally 'groovy' . Sound System by Op Ivy comes to mind.

Thanks! Promising tune. Put it on the cycling playlist for testing in the saddle.

Yes, musical taste seems to have a huge impact on the number of tunes making the final cut for a given cadence or walking pace. With my tastes, no end to the ~120 bpm material perfect for synchronous walking at ~120 steps/min.

And I think this would be true for many different musical tastes. Seems 120 a minute is a magic rate in both auditory processing and the physical act of walking.

Very different story for cycling at 80-100 rpm.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Thanks to all for your help on this project, which I'm now calling SPM (synchronous pedaling to music). It's a fascinating rabbit hole with a potentially big payoff for anyone who likes to pedal and has a safe place to listen to music at the same time.

Slowly building a personal SPM playlist targeted at my own musical tastes and 90±10 rpm cadence range — the closer to 90 rpm, the better. Will share when I have a few more saddle-tested entries.

Meanwhile, I'd like to re-ask the original questions in different words:

Q1. Have you ever personally succeeded at SPM in your own cadence range, indoors or out? Not just pedaling to background music, but deliberately staying synced to it?

Q2. If yes, what cadence range, and what music turned out to work best for you?

Q3. What else can you share about the experience?

Thanks again!

 

[BlackHand]

No, but I think you should put on your helmet and leg warmers and go for it!

Just a surf town boy on a Saturday night
Looking for the ride of his life
In the real-time world no one sees him at all
They all say he's crazy

Locking rhythms to the beat of his feet
Changing movement into speed
He has biked into the danger zone
When the biker becomes the bike
It can cut you like a knife, if the gift becomes the fire
On a wire between will and what will be
He's a maniac, maniac on the Vado
And he's biking like he's never biked before
He's a maniac, maniac on the Vado
And he's biking like he's never biked before!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

No, but I think you should put on your helmet and leg warmers and go for it!

Just a surf town boy on a Saturday night
Looking for the ride of his life
In the real-time world no one sees him at all
They all say he's crazy

Locking rhythms to the beat of his feet
Changing movement into speed
He has biked into the danger zone
When the biker becomes the bike
It can cut you like a knife, if the gift becomes the fire
On a wire between will and what will be
He's a maniac, maniac on the Vado
And he's biking like he's never biked before
He's a maniac, maniac on the Vado
And he's biking like he's never biked before!

Excellent! You pretty much nailed me there, but do I really have to wear leg warmers?

Groove is often defined as the pleasurable urge to move to certain kinds of music. And Maniac's groove is about as strong as it gets. Turns out, groove and its powerful positive effects on athletic performance have been studied quite extensively.

Found several papers today that confirm something I've been sensing all along but didn't quite know what to make of: A really strong groove like this one can give the impression of a strong sync to the music — even when the beat and cadence are only roughly aligned mathematically.

Better yet, that impression's all you need to reap the benefits of synchronous pedaling. So if I could stretch the feeling of being synced to Maniac's 158 bpm tempo from 79 to 84-85 rpm, the knees and I would be even happier.

This also explains why the feeling of synchrony seems to survive the minor cadence fluctuations of normal outdoor riding.

 

[PedalUma]

I would like to make the bike the instrument. Tabs could be spaced on for example spokes that would strike items such as bells, and drums on the forks and seat stays. The items could be placed along the length of the fork and stays, say five stacked items to the left and five to the right. Then tabs could be attached to the chain so that it triggers items on the chain stay left and right. You know how you can blow over the top of a jug. Other things could be triggered by wind, bumps, and motion. Although I like it being physical, accelerometers could also work and BlueTooth to a synth-box. Some chain links could be magnetized and they would pass a pickup. I almost forgot to mention the cranks as they pass the seat tube.

 

[6zfshdb]

Reminds me of the early days when I used a clothespin to hold a playing card in the spokes.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. Tabs could be spaced on for example spokes that would strike items such as bells, and drums on the forks and seat stays.

Every kid has done that,..

If you've never done that as a kid, then you Need To Do It Now before it's too late. !!

I was in to hockey cards.
Not so much baseball...

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I would like to make the bike the instrument. Tabs could be spaced on for example spokes that would strike items such as bells, and drums on the forks and seat stays. The items could be placed along the length of the fork and stays, say five stacked items to the left and five to the right. Then tabs could be attached to the chain so that it triggers items on the chain stay left and right. You know how you can blow over the top of a jug. Other things could be triggered by wind, bumps, and motion. Although I like it being physical, accelerometers could also work and BlueTooth to a synth-box. Some chain links could be magnetized and they would pass a pickup. I almost forgot to mention the cranks as they pass the seat tube.

Kind of a different project.

 

[PedalUma]

 

[PedalUma]

I do odd projects and am not screwup adverse. That is how I learn. A rhythm bike like that would be so much fun to ride. Periosity is a key bit to diagnosis. Is the problem happening at the speed of the wheel, chain, or crank?

Can anyone guess what this thing does; it is about 120mm long. And what it is made from. I gave it to a friend today and she loves it. It is painted in a New Mexico motif.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Starting to make good progress on an SPM90 (synchronous pedaling music for 90 rpm cadence) playlist. Some of you will recognize your suggestions in the following list of candidates passing their auditions on today's neighborhood laps:

I'm So Excited, The Pointer SIsters
I'm Still Standing, Elton John
Whip It, DEVO
Doctor Jeep, Sisters of Mercy
Eye of the Tiger, Survivor
Roar, Katy Perry
Middle of the Road, Pretenders
She Works Hard for the Money, Donna Summer
Last Dance, Donna Summer
Solar Echoes, Nigel Stanford
Entropy, Nigel Stanford
Atravessar, Jazz Juice
Desejar, Gerardo Frisina

All of these inductees had a STRONG...
1. Perceived sync to a cadence in the 90±5 rpm range
2. Groove (urge to move to the music)
3. Appeal to my own eclectic musical tastes

Turns out, it's possible to feel strongly synced to a tune without an exact sync — i.e., without a tempo equal to cadence or twice cadence. This perceived sync requires a very strong groove, a generally complex rhythm, and a tempo related to the cadence in certain ways I'm only beginning to understand.

The last 4 tunes on the list made the cut on perceived sync, and the last 2 despite their 120 bpm tempos. Both have highly complex and very infectious Brazilian rhythms.

Tumbling to perceived sync was a major breakthrough in this project. Perceived sync isn't quite as potent as exact sync in inducing the desired mind-body state. But plenty potent enough to boost rider power output and enjoyment, reduce perceived exertion, and make the time fly.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Whip It, DEVO

Middle of the Road, Pretenders

I wonder... "Me and Bobby McGee" by Janis Joplin? There was a time when I was commuting by bike (early and mid 1990s). Owned a Walkman and was listening to the music while riding. I can remember how I pedalled pretty slowly when the song was in its intro and then a subsequent fast ride with the main song part as I was riding through the Zawiszy Square roundabout in Warsaw

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I wonder... "Me and Bobby McGee" by Janis Joplin?

I'll test it but not hopeful. The 170 bpm tempo is promising, but not much of a groove and only marginal appeal for me. Still, the playlist already has several tunes that turned out to work much better than expected.

There was a time when I was commuting by bike (early and mid 1990s). Owned a Walkman and was listening to the music while riding. I can remember how I pedalled pretty slowly when the song was in its intro and then a subsequent fast ride with the main song part as I was riding through the Zawiszy Square roundabout in Warsaw

Yes, that's part of the mind-body effect I'm ultimately after here.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

The liveBPM app will automatically calc whatever is playing in real time. I use it for my band...

Thanks! Gave it a try. Like the auto tempo detection but the interface doesn't work well for this project.

 

[PedalUma]

People can get confused about tempo counts. Is it the bass drum or the snare? Ask any drummer, it is the snare. If one does CPR to the snare of 'Stayin Alive' the patient dies. With 'More than a Woman' what extra-bits are they talking about anyway?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

People can get confused about tempo counts. Is it the bass drum or the snare? Ask any drummer, it is the snare.

Lots of literature on this complex topic, from musicians, dancers, musicologists, psychologists, physiologists, and neuroscientists. The consensus is that the most important tempo in a piece is the one you tap out spontaneously with your finger or foot without thinking about it.

That's called the tactus, and it's a reliable measure of the pulse — the steady beat marking out the most fundamental tempo in a layered rhythm. The pulse may or may not be the slowest tempo present.

My tactus often follows the snare but not infrequently the kick or bass. Depends on the piece as a whole. When my pedaling feels strongly synced, it's generally to the tactus.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Added more saddle-tested tunes to the SPM90 (synchronous pedaling to music for 90 rpm cadence) playlist today.

1. The Boys of Summer, Don Henley
2. Hit the Road, Jack, Ray Charles
3. Better, Cody Fry and Cory Wong
4. Want Me Back, Cody Fry and Cory Wong
5 Fantasy, Earth, Wind, and Fire
6. September, Earth, Wind, and Fire
7. Superstition, Stevie Wonder
8. Stratus, Billy Cobham w/ Novecento and Bob Mintzer
9. Shadow, Billy Cobham
10. Shining Sun, Billy Cobham
11. Super Freak, Rick James
12. Cheap Thrills, Sia
13. Take the A Train, Duke Ellington
14. C Jam Blues, Oscar Peterson Trio
15. So What, Miles Davis
16. Milestones, Miles Davis

Took 13 mi of neighborhood laps to confirm these and maybe 20 more. I'd normally be bored stiff after that many laps, but the time flew by.

The last 4, all huge jazz classics, have weaker grooves than the others but still produce the desired effect. and on 2nd audition didn't have quite enough. They've been removed.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Exciting discovery!
Added a very interesting group of saddle-tested tunes to the SPM90 (synchronous pedaling to music for 90 rpm cadence) playlist today. Interesting because all have unmistakable tempos in the 120±10 bpm range, but their grooves are powerful enough to produce strong perceived syncs with cadences in the 90±10 rpm range.

o Everybody Wants to Rule the World, Tears for Fears
o Good Times, Chic
o Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, Michael Jackson
o September, Earth, Wind, and Fire
o Funky Town, Lipps, Inc.
o The Door, Teddy Swims

With a little practice, this 90/120 (90 rpm against 120 bpm) scenario enables a triplet pedal stroke pattern that only strengthens the propulsiveness of the groove by adding a rolling shuffle feel to the rhythm. Didn't see that coming!

Classic rolling shuffle at 120 bpm in 12/8 time. Quite an experience to pedal in sync to it at 90 rpm!

A good dancer would have figured out this 90/120 sync right away, but I'm the kernel of truth in "white men can't dance". Took me hours of saddle time — and hours more to put it into words.

How it works
Recall that at 90 rpm, there are 2 power strokes per revolution and therefore 180 strokes/min. That means 3 strokes for every 2 beats at 120 bpm. So if the right (R) stroke hits beat 1, the next 2 strokes (L then R) hit no beat, but the following L stroke hits beat 3, and so on.

That makes your feet feel like they're dancing the

R LR L RL R LR L RL R LR L

pattern of a fast, hard-driving accented waltz, where the underlines mark the strokes accented by hitting the beat. Feel it for yourself: Read the line aloud at a fast, steady pace with emphasis on the underlines.

But don't let the waltz reference fool you. If you're laying down some leg power, nothing sedate about this synchronous pedaling experience at 90 rpm.

Turns out, you can sync this 3-on-2 stroke pattern to any 120 bpm tune at 90 rpm with practice. But with a favorable groove, it's synchronous pedaling magic! Time signatures like 12/8, 9/8, 6/8, and even 3/4 help, but even ubiquitous 4/4 works with the right groove.

The very good news: This 3-on-2 stroke pattern opens up a whole world of groovy 120 bpm music to synchronous pedaling at 90 rpm!

 

[Roamers]

Recall that at 90 rpm, there are 2 power strokes per revolution and therefore 180 strokes/min.

I've been reading this with interest. I can't imagine pedalling to a beat (walking/running yes).

Do you find that you go away from smooth spinning and going to push-push-push-push?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Do you find that you go away from smooth spinning and going to push-push-push-push?

Sometimes to find the beat or get back on it but not generally. In fact, it smoothes out my pedaling at times.

The surprisingly strong phenomenon of perceived sync gives you enough flexibility that you don't have to stay right on beat every second to get the full mind-body effect of synchronous pedaling. And you have gears, assist options, finely tuned leg power, and even brakes to help you.

It becomes a game that gets easier with practice, and it adds to the feeling of being one with the bike.

Of course, this will be an occasional riding mode reserved for places it's safe. And one I'll look forward to.