Does it exist: 28mph dropbar ebike 625+ W/hr battery + rack & fenders + water bottle mount

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kevinkiller

New Member
Hi,

Just got a new job and I need a fast commuter. I'm a big roadie and ride a BMC RoadMachine.

I want an electric version of this with a big battery to get me through 20-mile (one-way) commute in less than an hour.

I need a rack and fenders to carry luggage and keep me dry if it rains.

Does this bike exist?

P.S. I've found a few bikes with 500Whr batteries, but I need something bigger.

500Whr - Trek Domane+ HP
500Whr - Bulls Desert Falcon EVO
500Whr - Niner RLT 9 RDO
500Whr - Canondale Neo 5
500Whr - Diamondback Current
500Whr - Canyon Grail: ON (but what is up with those crazy bars, stem, and seat post??)
 
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The bigger-than-500whr bikes have become the standard in eMTB but drop bar bikes seem to be trending the other direction (smaller batteries and motors to make lighter bikes). Giant used to have the Road-E/Revolt-E which had a 500whr battery and you could add the 240whr extender to have additional range, but neither are on their US site anymore.

If you're a big roadie, 500whr is likely plenty for a 40 mile round trip with your effort factored in, though a 20mph average is going to gobble battery and I understand wanting more. If you're storing in the office, buy a charger to keep at work? Only needing 20 miles of charge is going to let you chew through battery with reckless abandon and 500whr is probably plenty.

Bosch has a ranger extender coming out (https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/help-center/ebw-powermore-retrofit) but I have no idea if it would work with existing bosch bikes like the Niner or Domane. Could look into it.
 
kevinkiller said:
Hi,

Just got a new job and I need a fast commuter. I'm a big roadie and ride a BMC RoadMachine.

I want an electric version of this with a big battery to get me through 20-mile (on-way) commute in less than an hour.

I need a rack and fenders to carry luggage and keep me dry if it rains.

Does this bike exist?

P.S. I've found a couple bikes with 500Whr batteries, but I need something bigger.

500Whr - Trek Domane+ HP
500Whr - Bulls Desert Falcon EVO
500Whr - Niner RLT 9 RDO
Click to expand...

What size RoadMachine?

Cannondale Topstone Neo 5 fits all but the 625wh portion. I had one for my shop bike for about a year and it was like riding in a crit every day, so fun!! 20ish miles is no problem, as mentioned, charge while you're at work and you'll end up with a lighter more nimble machine with the slightly smaller battery. Diamondback has a drop bar bike that's a good deal, check out the Current. Looks kinda goofy but it'll rip up that commute just fine. Rack and fenders on either model are no prob. I'd go with the Racktime rack with integrated tail light and install a Lezyne 1000 lum headlight, they both run off the main batt and work perfectly. I'd also encourage upgrading whatever you get to the Kiox display so you have batt percentage in single digit readout as well as rider wattage output.

Salsa has some bikes in the works that fit all of those requirements...that's all I can share for now but if you can hang tight for a bit there will be some tasty options out there. Most of the e-road bikes that have a proper Bosch Performance Speed motor (that's the one you want) are leaning more towards gravel which means they'll be plenty comfy on the road and have room for meatier tires should you want that option down the road.

At my old shop my commute was 17ish miles each way. I'd perch myself on a townie/moustache handlebar which got my back about as flat as riding in the drops. In turbo mode (highest assist) it'd basically be parked at 28mph and the commute was 40ish mins depending on traffic. Battery wise I'd have 40-50% left and it'd be charged by lunch time. That's all to say I wouldn't rule out a flat bar bike either, food for thought.
 
You could have a second battery and charger at the office. I just make the bike I want. Here is one from a few years ago. The battery is external so it is easy to swap. And larger and smaller batteries are interchangeable. This one has in triangle places for two.
 

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PedalUma said:
You could have a second battery and charger at the office. I just make the bike I want. Here is one from a few years ago. The battery is external so it is easy to swap. And larger and smaller batteries are interchangeable. This one has in triangle places for two.
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Holy cow! What kind of riser/dropbar are running on that bike?

Never seen anything like it before!!
 
Brendon@OEB said:
What size RoadMachine?

Cannondale Topstone Neo 5 fits all but the 625wh portion. I had one for my shop bike for about a year and it was like riding in a crit every day, so fun!! 20ish miles is no problem, as mentioned, charge while you're at work and you'll end up with a lighter more nimble machine with the slightly smaller battery. Diamondback has a drop bar bike that's a good deal, check out the Current. Looks kinda goofy but it'll rip up that commute just fine. Rack and fenders on either model are no prob. I'd go with the Racktime rack with integrated tail light and install a Lezyne 1000 lum headlight, they both run off the main batt and work perfectly. I'd also encourage upgrading whatever you get to the Kiox display so you have batt percentage in single digit readout as well as rider wattage output.

Salsa has some bikes in the works that fit all of those requirements...that's all I can share for now but if you can hang tight for a bit there will be some tasty options out there. Most of the e-road bikes that have a proper Bosch Performance Speed motor (that's the one you want) are leaning more towards gravel which means they'll be plenty comfy on the road and have room for meatier tires should you want that option down the road.

At my old shop my commute was 17ish miles each way. I'd perch myself on a townie/moustache handlebar which got my back about as flat as riding in the drops. In turbo mode (highest assist) it'd basically be parked at 28mph and the commute was 40ish mins depending on traffic. Battery wise I'd have 40-50% left and it'd be charged by lunch time. That's all to say I wouldn't rule out a flat bar bike either, food for thought.
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I was checking out the Cannondale Topstone Neo 5 and it looks great except a reviewer was saying it didn’t have ability to attack a rack or fenders.

The diamondback looks compelling at $2999 but it has an aluminum fork which is no-go for me. The road vibrations through the other alu fork I had (Jamie Roy single speed) made my hands go numb.

I ride a 58cm RoadMachine 02 One and I feel a little cramped on the stock 120mm stem, but the stand over is fine and the 74.2 degree seat tube angle is very compatible with the Canondale’s 74 degrees.

I’m putting these two bikes on my list.
 
kevinkiller said:
What kind of riser/dropbar?
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That bike has a Soma Condor II gravel bar.
I wanted comfort in the rise and on the hoods for commuting with paniers yet, to still be able to tuck. It is a Specialized Chisel with an air fork. The motor is just 85Nm, torque sensor. I yanked the 11-sp Eagle drive and installed a more robust 11-50 nine-speed with a thicker chain and cogs. I also installed Big Ben slick tires, ditching the mountain knobs for speed. That bike out climbs and out runs everything it has ridden with including extra-high power bikes, and the pricy known names from the bigs. Everything on the bike is modular, interoperable, and non-proprietary with the right to repair, open source like Linux, Wiki, not Apple. I am now working on a 14-year-old bike. It is getting a cargo grade motor and will out perform everything from stores or online. They may sell you the razor cheep or a lot, but you are then on the hook to buy the proprietary blades. Not with the bikes I ride. When it is time to replace the motor in ten-years, any universal fit motor will work, the same with all other parts. A $1200 part from Specialized that takes 12-weeks can be swapped for $65 the same day.
 

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kevinkiller said:
I was checking out the Cannondale Topstone Neo 5 and it looks great except a reviewer was saying it didn’t have ability to attack a rack or fenders.

The diamondback looks compelling at $2999 but it has an aluminum fork which is no-go for me. The road vibrations through the other alu fork I had (Jamie Roy single speed) made my hands go numb.

I ride a 58cm RoadMachine 02 One and I feel a little cramped on the stock 120mm stem, but the stand over is fine and the 74.2 degree seat tube angle is very compatible with the Canondale’s 74 degrees.

I’m putting these two bikes on my list.
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Whoever said that about the Topstone Neo 5 is completely wrong, see attached. The Topstone Neo Carbon 2 can also accept fenders, the rack would have to be a seatpost or axle mounted situation though, not a deal breaker necessarily.

I hear ya on the alu fork, but not all alu forks are created equal, plus the axle-crown measurement on the Current is probably quite a bit longer thus offering a bit of dampening. I'd also throw out there a fork swap to, potentially, the new gravel suspension forks would be worth considering.

What's your time-frame to get your commuter all set? I imagine sooner the better?
 
Brendon@OEB said:
Whoever said that about the Topstone Neo 5 is completely wrong, see attached. The Topstone Neo Carbon 2 can also accept fenders, the rack would have to be a seatpost or axle mounted situation though, not a deal breaker necessarily.

I hear ya on the alu fork, but not all alu forks are created equal, plus the axle-crown measurement on the Current is probably quite a bit longer thus offering a bit of dampening. I'd also throw out there a fork swap to, potentially, the new gravel suspension forks would be worth considering.

What's your time-frame to get your commuter all set? I imagine sooner the better?
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Weird, I’m not seeing any attachments on my end (I do see the other poster’s pictures though)

I did some more digging and it looks like the Diamondback, Cannondale and Niner have a 42t chainring, the Trek a 46t and the Bulls a 48t. The https://www.gear-calculator.com/ website shows that 28mph on a 28/32-630 (i.e. 700x32) would require a cadence of 89, 81 and 78 rpm respectively. I'm a grinder and I find my natural cadence to be in the 75 - 80 range so I'm really looking for the 46t/48t chainrings.

There was a thread here where they talked about installing a larger chainring and that could mess things up because the OEM has to input the drivetrain ratio into the Bosch system: https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/installing-larger-chain-ring-on-a-gen-4-motor.38293/

Also, there was this video talking about the new Bosch PowerMore 250 Range Extender and it was said that the OEM has to have programmed this compatibility into the software for it to be "PowerMore Ready".
. To be clear, this is NOT the same thing as Bosch "Dual Battery" which is older technology.

Lastly, the Bulls comes with 32mm tires, the Trek with 35mm tires, Cannondale with 36mm tires, and the Diamondback and Niner come with 50mm tires. Only the Trek mentions a max tire size of 38mm, so who knows how big you can go on the Bulls or Cannondale.

Running the cadence calculation on a 50mm tire shows 28mph is reached at 87rpm/42t, 79rpm/46t and 75rpm/48t.

Only the Bulls has Di2 shifting that's integrated with the Bosch motor. I'm not sure, but I believe that means the motor will "ease-up" to help the bike shift without putting too much strain on the gears.

However only the Bulls is missing rack/fender eyelets while all the other bikes have them, but this company has rack/bags for non-eyelet bikes: https://www.tailfin.cc/category/seat-packs/?v=7516fd43adaa

So, what I'd like is (in order).

1.) PowerMore extender compatibility
2.) 46t/48t chainring
3.) Rack/Fender eyelets
4.) Di2 shifting

So the three big questions are:

Are any of the bikes PowerMore ready?
Can a dealer reprogram the gear ratios so I can put on a bigger chainring?
Will a 50mm tire fit on the Cannondale or Bulls?

Oh, and to answer Brendon@OEB's question: I'm not in a huge rush as I've got my wife's Stromer ST-1 Platinum but it's a size (or 2) too small for me so while I can pedal it around it's not something I'd want to do for long.
 
I'm unclear what difference the chainring size makes. The motors are torque sensing, so all they really detect is pedaling torque which is mainly a factor of pedaling power and overall gear ratio (front/rear combo multiplied by wheel size). Is there something in the system that actually depends on chainring size?

I could be missing something but that sounds like bike shop bullshit to me.
 
jabberwocky said:
I'm unclear what difference the chainring size makes. The motors are torque sensing, so all they really detect is pedaling torque which is mainly a factor of pedaling power and overall gear ratio (front/rear combo multiplied by wheel size). Is there something in the system that actually depends on chainring size?

I could be missing something but that sounds like bike shop bullshit to me.
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Lol bike shop bullshit?

If you're looking to keep your effort in a particular wattage output and want to keep your cadence at a desired range then gearing is where you go. None of that is bullshit...
 
1) If you're talking about the new 250wh extender, that is only compatible with the new Smart System bikes. I believe all the bikes you've mentioned use the previous System Two(unless they have just come out with updated 2024 models). As mentioned by others, charging at work would be cheaper and possibly easier rather than carrying extra battery.

2) you can get other size chain rings for gen4 Bosch. Shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't making a huge jump in size.

3) and 4) Maybe add the Canyon Grail: ON to your list. Canyon did make a fender set for it and you can get it with eTap.

Also, the Bosch motors do have shift detection built in, which adjust assist when they sense change in pressure/speed at the cranks. Hard to tell in practice but it's supposed to help with smoother shifts and prolong chain life.
 
Brendon@OEB said:
Lol bike shop bullshit?

If you're looking to keep your effort in a particular wattage output and want to keep your cadence at a desired range then gearing is where you go. None of that is bullshit...
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I mean the part about how the motor has to somehow be changed if you adjust chainring sizes. I do understand how gearing works. Just not sure I buy that the motor somehow needs different firmware for a 46t ring vs a 44t or 42t or whatever.
 
jabberwocky said:
I mean the part about how the motor has to somehow be changed if you adjust chainring sizes. I do understand how gearing works. Just not sure I buy that the motor somehow needs different firmware for a 46t ring vs a 44t or 42t or whatever.
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According to Bosch small jumps are accounted for in the programming but large changes are discouraged and can cause damage/performance issues, at least that's what multiple service reps have said 🤷‍♂️
 
Brendon@OEB said:
According to Bosch small jumps are accounted for in the programming but large changes are discouraged and can cause damage/performance issues, at least that's what multiple service reps have said 🤷‍♂️
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So the question is: can a local bike shop make the change needed to the motor settings after changing the size of the chainring?

Say going from 42t to 46t?
 
kevinkiller said:
So the question is: can a local bike shop make the change needed to the motor settings after changing the size of the chainring?

Say going from 42t to 46t?
Click to expand...
There are adjustments to account for tire size changes but the overall parameters are controlled by the bike manufacturer that's agreed upon with Bosch. There can be changes made but it's a much more involved process. For instance Gazelle's Medeo T10+ had an updated size and if the support from the drive unit is changed you can work with the brands to get it updated so the bike retains it's intended ride quality.
 
Brendon@OEB said:
There are adjustments to account for tire size changes but the overall parameters are controlled by the bike manufacturer that's agreed upon with Bosch. There can be changes made but it's a much more involved process. For instance Gazelle's Medeo T10+ had an updated size and if the support from the drive unit is changed you can work with the brands to get it updated so the bike retains it's intended ride quality.
Click to expand...
So is that a yes? no? On changing the chainring size?
 
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