Yamaha Urban Rush or BH Atom Diamond Wave Pro

[Catbiscuits]

I live in a small town outside New York City near https://www.electricspokes.com/

I want to get an e-bike to haul groceries up the hill to our house. The hill is a 13% grade. Electric Spokes has a Magnum Metro+ Electric Bike City Cruiser that I liked.

I do cycle recreationally and am #3 on that hill in Strava, but I want a bike that doesn’t require me to feel like I’m going to die when I get to the top of the hill. I tried the Magnum and enjoyed it. I didn’t try that hill but I suspect it’d be fine in it even though I weigh 195 and I’d have groceries.

Any thoughts? Talk me out of it!

 

[indianajo]

Cruisers & MTB's with rear baskets & cargo make for bad weight distribution. I've been over the handlebars 4 times on Huffy Savannah, Diamondback MTB, Pacific MTB. Onto my chin each time. Last time I broke it. Also I was knocked off the seat to my feet by a dog hitting the front wheel once.
Analysis, loaded weight was 120 lb rear, 20 lb front without me on it. Not enough steering traction.
So, front baskets (which you have to steer) or a stretch frame cargo bike as left. Mine is a custom electrified yubabikes bodaboda (since I have 28" legs). They make a mid drive mondo with a 20" rear wheel (which I don't like). What I do like is mounts in the frame for a front basket that does not have to be steered.
Other aluminum frame brands, pedego stretch, xtracycle swoop, radwagon. In steel surly has a big dummy.
If there is no wind in your location, front bin bikes like the reiss & mueller and yuba become options, but are expensive because of the chain drive steering.
I'm grossing 305 lb with 170 lb me, 75 lb bike with 1200 W geared hubmotor & 17 AH battery, 60 lb groceries or weedkiller. I get up 15% grades fine. LOOONg grades can overheat the motor, but we have short rollers here in Indiana. Sierra Madre & Rocky Mountain riders, use a DD hubmotor or middrive. My experience was a 1000 WDD hubmotor used 130% the electricity of the geared hubmotor using power on upgrades only, pedaling on the flat. Also I hated the drag of the DD hubmotor when I was pedaling, which is at least 66% of the distance.

 

[rich c]

#3 on Strava. First time I’ve seen that qualifier on here.

 

[Ebiker01]

No, that ebike won’t cut it.

Need at least a 750watts motor and at least 600wh battery /48volts.

 

[Catbiscuits]

Thanks for all the input! Some clarifications.

One thing I didn’t make clear is that the hill is short. The 13% grade is 500 feet. After that it’s 6% grade. I rode the bike on hills near the LBS and it seemed plenty capable with some input from me, I always felt I was pedaling downhill. My wife said I looked sweaty, but nothing like if I’d been out there unassisted. I would probably rarely haul a lot of groceries up the 13% grade, more likely a 6-8% grade that lasts about 1/3 mile.

Also I won’t be hauling 60 pounds of groceries regularly. More like 30. I have to convince my wife to let me keep my stage 2 tuned BMW 3 series. It already gets around 8000 miles a year and if I can cut that down to 3-4000, that’d be great.

On my Brompton, I’ve always preferred rear loads to front loads, but maybe that’s because of the layout of those bikes. I have read racks on my 1980s steel trek road bike. Can’t imagine a front rack loaded down on either.

 

[Catbiscuits]

I also like the Civia Parkway. It has a look I like, but I’m pretty sure it’s less powerful, if significantly lighter than, the Metro. Also it’s from an LBS that isn’t electric first. The owner is a friend, but the service I’ve had there had been marginal enough that I take my Brompton into the city for service even though it’s 15 miles away.

Also the Faraday bikes look great to me although the coming shutdown is a killer. The lack of range doesn’t matter to me. I don’t see any reason why I would ever go further than 15 miles in one day. There is a circle of about 5 miles in which I can safely ride before more poorly planned suburbs make it too dangerous to be on the road and most everything I want is a few miles away, unfortunately there is that hill at the end.

 

[indianajo]

The MTB & cruiser the front wheel whipped sideways & threw me thrice with nothing in the rear baskets but a tire change kit. About 8 pounds. Hit a speed bump in the dark @ 10 mph, hit a branch in the road at a measly 3 mph, ran off road edge onto gravel @ 25 mph in the dark. Maybe your hands are stronger. I play wood piano, so I'm not a complete weakling in the hands. The stretch frame bodaboda hasn't done that yet, 20 months & counting. With panniers, double leg kickstand it was $1900 & the motor kit + battery +mount hardware was $940. Quality was superb, SRAM shifters were superior. My legs are short, you may not want the drop frame.

 

[Catbiscuits]

So you’re saying that happened with that bike? I don’t understand how that would happen, but I don’t know electric bikes so maybe there is something weird about it. I’ve ridden bikes with stuff on the rear rack a bunch of times and never felt unstable. I’m curious what’s causing that instability, maybe something in the heavy electric mechanism.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

I'm really happy with my BH Atom Diamond Wave Pro - - give it a try. 90Nm torque. Smooth Brose belt driven motor. 5 year warranty. It has an internally geared hub, but you can get the City Wave if you prefer a derailleur. That LBS carries BH ebikes, so try them out. With a 13% grade, you'll definitely still feel some thigh burn, but without the despair that comes from heaving your full body weight alternately on each pedal, and without the lung burn.

 

[Catbiscuits]

That seems like a nice bike and maybe gets over the stability issues mentioned earlier?

I would normally shy away from an 8 speed, but I guess with an electric motor it doesn’t matter anywhere near as much.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Think of the four levels of assist as your front gears... So it is more like having 32 gears. But me I never had more than a 10 speed before, so I don't have a problem with 8 + assist.

 

[TForan]

I much prefer heavy loads in my rear baskets. I can't stand weight up high in a front basket. Here's mine. I can easily haul 50 lbs . But it is a long wheelbase heavy bike. Personally, I'd say go with a torquey mid drive. My bike eats hills.

 

[tomjasz]

A BBSHD with a 220lb rider should be able to do a 13% grade at 20MPH. 42T X 20T. 52V 17Ah battery. 25A controller setting.

 

[indianajo]

So you’re saying that happened with that bike? I don’t understand how that would happen, but I don’t know electric bikes so maybe there is something weird about it. I’ve ridden bikes with stuff on the rear rack a bunch of times and never felt unstable. I’m curious what’s causing that instability, maybe something in the heavy electric mechanism.

The huffy savannah, the diamondback & Pacific MTB were unpowered steel frame bikes. The basket was steel.
Putting a 12 lb hub motor on the back like magnums sure wouldn't help front traction any.

 

[tomjasz]

500 feet opens up a lot of nice geared hub bikes as possible candidates. 250W-350W mids will work, but I prefer a bit more power. I'd be happy with my 10T MAC and my 52V instead of my 36V.

 

[Catbiscuits]

Maybe I should get an electric touring or folding bike then. I’ve never had problems with traction on either of those even when heavily weighed down in the back.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Just go to the LBS and try every ebike you like. Talking about it and reading about it is all very fine, but how it feels is what's important.

 

[BBassett]

Any bike you want to ride on a daily basis, whatever is most perfect for you and how you want to ride... add a BaFang BBSHD mid-drive w/BlingRing, the largest quality lithium triangle pack the frame will hold (EM3 30Ah 52V), an Eggrider control interface, and charge the battery with a Grin Satiator. Spend as much as you want on a quality bike and another $2000 on the above 4 items and you will have an ebike better than most any production ebike you can find. Of course within limits... ya can't buy a Amazon/Walmart POS and have a high-quality bike. I also recommend using a Rohloff Speed-hub with the BBSHD they seem made for each other, but that adds another $1600+. As in all things today you get what you pay for. If you want to be riding the same ebike in 3 or 4 years don't short it.

 

[Catbiscuits]

I’ve retitled the thread year again to reflect my current results. I’m sure building my own bike would be the best route, but I can’t really handle that extra workload at the moment.

I went to the LeBS and tried the BH Street first, since the Diamond Wave Pro had to be assembled. I liked it! The gearing was a bit clunky (I’m used to Dura Ace on my Domane, so no surprise there), but it did well. The display was much nicer than the Metro and I liked that it was demountable. I liked how elegant the bike was, with the battery “integrated” into the frame.

Then I tried the Yamaha Urban Rush. What shocked me was that it felt like riding a bike. Honestly, if I could get to the point that I’d sell the electric bike because I had lost 25 pounds and had developed my legs to the point that I was riding up the hill from hell unassisted, I’d be happier than if I rode an electric bike all the time. Plus, I’d been thinking about buying a Rivendell geared for hill climbing, but given that they are not available at any LBS, I have stalled on that. Maybe this is the right thing to do?

The Urban Rush felt right. I hit 27mph heading down a hill (unassisted of course) and felt nice and stable. The Tiagra groupset felt smoother than the Acera groupset on the Street. Since they are entry level groupsets, I wonder why there’s a difference.

Finally I tried the Diamond Wave Pro. It didn’t knock me out. It was better than the Street, but not by a huge amount, but it felt like I was getting pulled along by it.

If I set up the Urban Rush with a rear rack, I’ll approach the 1980s Panasonic touring bike/Rivendell setup that I had been thinking about for the last few years. That’s my current thinking. Talk me out of it.

 

[BBassett]

Talk me out of it.

I've found that no example, amount of common sense, shared mass of experience, facts or anything else can dissuade people from taking the easiest path possible when they have their minds set. Buy it off the shelf. If these pictures don't show you that you can build a better bike than you can buy... nothing will.
You may not want to turn a wrench but most likely a LBS could easily assemble anything you wanted. There are probably 9 or 10 different countries represented in my bike, and that's not including any of the gear. When I want a great bowl of tomato soup I make it I don't buy canned. MMMMMMmmmmmm tomato soup... gotta go! Cheers.