Not a spectacular ride but I want to do more of the Palouse to Cascades (John Wayne) trail in WA. East of the Columbia River goatheads are reported to be a problem. I have Schwalbe G-one tires with tubes and Mr Tuffy liners. Wheels are tubeless ready and I picked up some Orange Seal, went to bike shop with Stans in mind but mechanic recommended Orange Seal so I went with his suggestion. Not sure if I should do tubeless or keep the liners and add sealant to the tubes. I haven't had a flat with the liners but I haven't ridden in goathead territory either. Anyone with goathead experience?
Tubeless or Mr Tuffy and sealant in tube for goatheads?
- Thread starter EMGX
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Nvreloader
Western Nevada
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- USA
I have 2 state experience (NV & CA) with those (*&%%#@)(&T%(( goat heads. I now run Flat Out Sportsman series in my tubed fat tire bikes and my Montague non e bike.
So far this combo has worked very well off and on roads conditions.
Had problems with the T liners staying in place, removed them and went with Flat out.
ymmv
So far this combo has worked very well off and on roads conditions.
Had problems with the T liners staying in place, removed them and went with Flat out.
ymmv
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
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- USA
If only goatheads are the problem, I would do tubeless. I would definitely NOT do Stans or Orange Seal as both are inferior to Flatout as a tubeless sealant.
I went thru a construction site once when I was living in Fresno and came out the other side with no less than 100 goatheads. I counted them as I took the things out. Fortunately on that bike I had a serious tire and a thornproof tube so no flat. Also on my commute across a big park, I had goathead infested segments.
I used Tuffy for decades and its inferior to Flatout when tubes are in play. If sticking with tubes, I would do thornproof tubes and Flatout. Maybe leave the Tuffy in just for the sake of overkill but don't rely on it. The Tuffy of today is nothing like what it was when it first came onto the market.
I went thru a construction site once when I was living in Fresno and came out the other side with no less than 100 goatheads. I counted them as I took the things out. Fortunately on that bike I had a serious tire and a thornproof tube so no flat. Also on my commute across a big park, I had goathead infested segments.
I used Tuffy for decades and its inferior to Flatout when tubes are in play. If sticking with tubes, I would do thornproof tubes and Flatout. Maybe leave the Tuffy in just for the sake of overkill but don't rely on it. The Tuffy of today is nothing like what it was when it first came onto the market.
Nvreloader
Western Nevada
- Region
- USA
Matt
Question for you,
What are you calling thorn proof tubes?
I am running these tubes on my e bikes:
These were the best HD tubes I could find at the time.
So far, very good results, with Flat Out + these tubes.
Tia
Question for you,
What are you calling thorn proof tubes?
I am running these tubes on my e bikes:
These were the best HD tubes I could find at the time.
So far, very good results, with Flat Out + these tubes.
Tia
My brother and I rode several hunderd rail-trail miles in WA and ID in June. Among them Pal-Cas trail. I used Scwalbe SuperMotoX with Mr Tuffys. Brother had one flat with Kenda OEM tire. I believe in Mr Tuffy AND good SuperMotoX tires. I just picked up a one inch nail yesterday and Mr Tuffy deflected the nail sideways in the tire. Got home and pulled the nail out and will continue riding without any repairs.
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Thanks for all the input/ideas. It'll be 2-3 weeks before I can do the rides. Depending on weather I'm planning to base at Wanapum state park and do a day ride east as far as reasonable and back, then a day ride west to Kittitas and back. Lastly drive to Rattlesnake Lake and ride east to Snoqualmie tunnel and back. So far I've only done a day ride west from Easton state park to a little past Snoqualmie tunnel and back, was having a lot of knee pain at the time which has subsided. Not sure if I'll take my BH gravel bike which is tubeless ready or a converted mountain bike which has Schwalbe Billy Bonkers tires (not tubeless compatible). In the meantime I'll try tubeless with my BH bike and Flatout for the tubes in the converted bike.
M@Robertson, I see there are a few variations of Flatout, which do you use and how much in the tube (26x2.4 tires on the converted bike)?
Edit: I see in a post in a different thread that you use the Sportsman version.
M@Robertson, I see there are a few variations of Flatout, which do you use and how much in the tube (26x2.4 tires on the converted bike)?
Edit: I see in a post in a different thread that you use the Sportsman version.
m@Robertson
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Well of course nothing in this world is truly thornproof... -resistant but not -proof.
The answer to this question is a moving target. It depends on what day it is, almost, and what wheel we are talking about. Remember also I use Presta valves on almost everything which changes things up quite a bit in terms of choices out there.
Sunlite makes thorn-resistant tubes that are pretty thick. So does Duro. But the Sunlites on occasion get ding'd for the valve being not so well affixed. This is because, I think, people are using them undersized which is the opposite of what I do. An undersized tube on a powered wheel will slip and the valve might tear clean off. Oversize the tube instead and not only will the tube fix firmly in place on the rim, it will be stronger because it is not stretched thin like a balloon.
As a general rule I am trying to use Schwalbe Air Plus tubes these days. These tubes are about halfway between a thornproof and a regular tube in terms of thickness. And you get a quality tube.
For fat bike tubes, I stick with Vee 26x5.05" tubes. They have two versions. One is lightweight and thats NOT the one I use. The standard weight tubes are about 1.5mm thick. I also make sure I buy presta tubes with removable valve cores so I can more easily inject Flatout so that makes my tube choice list smaller. Back in the day I used Kenda fat tubes, which were pretty thick, and used an injector thru the tube rubber to get the sealant in.
I have seen the Bakcou tubes, and they are relatively new on the market as fat thick tubes used to be considered too heavy. However the Bakcou's are not in a truly fat size and the last thing you want to do is use a 4.0 tube on a tire larger than 4.0. A 4.0 tube would be fine on a 3.0 to 3.5 tire though. The BackCou 20x4.0 tube is off my list because of its valve not screwing down, so on a powered wheel the stem will slip/walk. I use the Schwalbe Air Plus 'American Valve' that is a schraeder valve with threads and a nut that goes all the way down.
If I didn't know what I was buying in advance, I would spend time looking for a tube with the thickest rubber I could find, with a valve that fully screws down onto the rim that is also long enough to get thru my double-wall rims. What I end up with is going to vary depending on whats on the market.
m@Robertson
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- USA
Yes although the Flatout people have told me the Light Equipment version that is stocked at Home Depot is just as good on a bike. For a 26x4.x tire I would use a half-bottle of the stuff. Sounds like a lot but that is the manufacturer rec. 16 oz in a fat tire means you can have a flat, lose some and there's still plenty left over for the next puncture, the one after that etc.
About a year ago I finally wore a set of tires down that had Flatout put into them when they were new. I got the tire off and replaced it, and the stuff inside was not what you would call liquid. Was more like Steve McQueen's The Blob consistency. But I was still flat free, after having suffered a few punctures that it fixed for me, and the stuff was at least three years old..
So I ordered some of the quick strike formula because local Home Depot didn't stock it. My plan for the Billy Bonkers 26x2.1 (not 2.4) which might change, is to try to test one wheel tubeless with flatout and see if the tire holds air. Those tires are fit very tight on the rims and are very difficult to break the beads so I'm not concerned about tubular vs tubeless beads. If that doesn't work well I'll put flatout in the tubes. I'd rather be able to use bacon strips to fix a flat that tubeless flatout can't seal than have to change a tube plus avoid the weight of tubes plus sealant. I have done this some with a scooter - used RideOn sealant tubeless in a tubular tire, no air loss over weeks and the bead profile and tightness on the rim for the tube type tire to me was indistinguishable from same brand tubeless tire.
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