Trek's version of the SL?

Stefan Mikes said:
I had some thoughts. Currently, Trek operates these e-bike systems:
  • Older Bosch: plethora of e-bike models such as Allant+, Powerfly, etc.
  • Bosch Smart System: The most expensive Rail 9.9 and 9.8 e-bikes
  • Fazua: E Caliber, Domane + LT
  • No name hub-drive motor e-bikes: Dual Sport+
  • TQ HPR50: Fuel EXe
  • Electra e-bikes.
What brand could handle so many e-bike systems and not get into trouble? Or, leave the existing users alone?

Here's the full list:
  • Dual Sport+ - no name hub-drive motor
  • FX+ - no name hub-drive motor
  • Verve+ - older Bosch
  • Allant+ - older Bosch
  • Fuel EXe - TQ HPR
  • Powerfly - older Bosch
  • Powerfly Equipped - older Bosch
  • Rail - older Bosch
  • Rail with smart system - Bosch Smart System
  • E-Caliber - Fazua
  • Domane+ - Fazua
  • Electra - (I do not even want to guess)
Click to expand...
I'm surprised how spread out they are on drive systems.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
I had some thoughts. Currently, Trek operates these e-bike systems:
  • Older Bosch: plethora of e-bike models such as Allant+, Powerfly, etc.
  • Bosch Smart System: The most expensive Rail 9.9 and 9.8 e-bikes
  • Fazua: E Caliber, Domane + LT
  • No name hub-drive motor e-bikes: Dual Sport+
  • TQ HPR50: Fuel EXe
  • Electra e-bikes.
What brand could handle so many e-bike systems and not get into trouble? Or, leave the existing users alone?
...
Click to expand...

but trek is huge. bigger than specialized, and MUCH bigger than most bike companies. then, of course, they don't engineer every bit of these systems, especially the bosch and fazua ones. so i would guess the amount of resources they expend to support the various categories are proportional to what a smaller brand would expend on their bikes with fewer systems. in the end the ratio that matters is revenue produced from sales of a given type of bike vs. effort required to support them. a niche product (like the SL bikes) by definition must be expensive to be able to be supported. pushing out a firmware update takes pretty much the same work whether there's 100 or 100,000 of the bike out there, but obviously in the latter case you've got a lot more revenue to pay for it!
 
mschwett said:
but trek is huge. bigger than specialized, and MUCH bigger than most bike companies. then, of course, they don't engineer every bit of these systems, especially the bosch and fazua ones. so i would guess the amount of resources they expend to support the various categories are proportional to what a smaller brand would expend on their bikes with fewer systems. in the end the ratio that matters is revenue produced from sales of a given type of bike vs. effort required to support them. a niche product (like the SL bikes) by definition must be expensive to be able to be supported. pushing out a firmware update takes pretty much the same work whether there's 100 or 100,000 of the bike out there, but obviously in the latter case you've got a lot more revenue to pay for it!
Click to expand...
I absolutely cannot understand this logic. Didn't you notice that the development of several Trek product lines has actually stopped? While Specialized are far forward with their latest Mastermind system and neatly organized product lines. There are only two systems, the full power one based on Brose, and the lightweight (totally uniform) SL system, all based on a single app. Trek are struggling to compete with Specialized on a lightweight e-bike, and so far have not come with anything such like the SL (used on road, gravel, fitness, trail, all-mountain, and city e-bikes). The latest attempt with the TQ HPR has been indeed brave but why release two separate product lines based on a no-name hub-drive motor? Also, did you notice that the "latest & greatest" is only used on the most expensive Trek e-bikes?

The tragedy of Trek is they have never owned any e-bike system but made themselves a hostage of e-bike system manufacturers. Bosch is coming with the Smart System and what happens? All good product lines suddenly become obsolete.

Many huge companies collapsed when they lost their sense of direction.

P.S. The SL being a "niche product"? That's the product Trek would die for to get! Trek has been always trying to follow Specialized on e-bikes. Spec making the Vado (Latin: "go!") and Trek answering with Allant (French: "go!") :D
 
Last edited:
The Electra I rode had the Bosch performance line motor. Nic bike, if you want a cruiser.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
I absolutely cannot understand this logic. Didn't you notice that the development of several Trek product lines has actually stopped? While Specialized are far forward with their latest Mastermind system and neatly organized product lines. There are only two systems, the full power one based on Brose, and the lightweight (totally uniform) SL system, all based on a single app. Trek are struggling to compete with Specialized on a lightweight e-bike, and so far have not come with anything such like the SL (used on road, gravel, fitness, trail, all-mountain, and city e-bikes). The latest attempt with the TQ HPR has been indeed brave but why release two separate product lines based on a no-name hub-drive motor? Also, did you notice that the "latest & greatest" is only used on the most expensive Trek e-bikes?

The tragedy of Trek is they have never owned any e-bike system but made themselves a hostage of e-bike system manufacturers. Bosch is coming with the Smart System and what happens? All good product lines suddenly become obsolete.

Many huge companies collapsed when they lost their sense of direction.

P.S. The SL being a "niche product"? That's the product Trek would die for to get! Trek has been always trying to follow Specialized on e-bikes. Spec making the Vado (Latin: "go!") and Trek answering with Allant (French: "go!") :D
Click to expand...

no argument here, i don’t own any trek bikes and none of them are particularly appealing to me …. but a bigger company with more sales volume can definitely support more product differentiation. whether the products are GOOD is another story!

specialized made a very smart move investing in the two systems they went big on some years ago, and are now benefitting from being able to put them in several types of bikes. i wonder what the next generation of the SL will look like!
 
Specialized is definitely the "Jack the Giant Killer" when it comes to higher end ebikes. I wonder why Giant, which is the largest bike company in the world, is so far behind when it comes to ebikes.
 
mschwett said:
no argument here, i don’t own any trek bikes and none of them are particularly appealing to me …. but a bigger company with more sales volume can definitely support more product differentiation. whether the products are GOOD is another story!

specialized made a very smart move investing in the two systems they went big on some years ago, and are now benefitting from being able to put them in several types of bikes. i wonder what the next generation of the SL will look like!
Click to expand...
Perhaps the next generation of SL will be a true gravel bike. My LBS tells me that mist SL's together
 
Trek has also released their Duosport and FX2 ebike versions. Seems to be about 1/2 price of a Vado 5.0 and 1/2 the range - tho a range extender is also available. Slightly more torque @ 40 Nm. Trek's claimed weight at < 40 lbs so still heavier than the SL. According to various videos also seems significantly quieter than both my SL and Tero motors. None available on line tho several are within a hundred miles or so of me. Hopefully one of the local shops gets them soon so I can play Lookie Lou.
 
I have posted some info about the new Trek Fx+ and Dual Sport+ on the Trek forum. We bought one 2 weeks ago for my wife as a lighter alternative to her Trek Verve+2 so I am happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability. The rear hub drive and electronics is by Hyena, Taiwan. Trek subsidiary Electra has sold bikes with Hyena drives for a while, so Trek has some experience with the company’s products.

I have owned a Vado SL 4.0 since September 2021 and we tried to get another for my wife, but they were unavailable for many months in Australia, so we bought the Trek Verve+ about 3 months ago.
 
mschwett said:
the creo evo really is a gravel bike in every way, isn't it? tire clearance up to 42x700, head shock, endurance geometry, 1x drivetrains, dropper post, flared bars...
Click to expand...
You have a good point. I'm seeing a lot of popularity in handle bars like the Vado SL on gravel bikes out our way. I do like the Creo.
 
Just checked out FX + online. Called my LBS (Omaha, Ne.) and they said they are expecting the first FX + to start arriving in about 2 weeks. I will definitely take one out for a test ride. 2,500 dollars US. It is not a turbo vado SL but seems like a very good value. It has an altus gear changer. Not the best deraileur.
 
Yes, I will test ride the FX + for fun, but will almost certainly go with a turbo vado sl 4.0 or 5.0 (as soon as they become available for a test ride).
 
Has anyone had a chance to test ride an Fx+? My wife has reached the conclusion that the initial motor boost is too strong, even at the lowest setting, for safe low speed manoeuvring which seems to be a function of the motor control algorithm not responding in a proportional manner to the torque sensor. According to the Hyena website https://www.hyena-ebike.com/sensor/ the torque sensor delivers an analogue voltage proportion to torque, so a proportional (rather then on/off) response should be expected. I emailed Trek Australia customer support about 2 weeks ago to ask if the behaviour of the bike indicates a fault or if it is performing as intended. No response yet apart from an acknowledgment.
 
the new Domane e-road bike now has the harmonic pin motor. very clean design, similar specs to a creo but a pound or two lighter!

the price for the top end 12 speed dura ace version is surprisingly low - that’s about what a non-electric road bike with that group costs!

bikerumor.com

Trek Domane+ SLR is an e-bike with all the ride sensations of a traditional road bicycle

Treks Domane+ SLR is genuinely an all-new animal for all-road riding and more like a traditional road ride than we've ever experienced.
bikerumor.com bikerumor.com
 
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