Thread

[Jim Laslett]

Hi

I purchased a specialized turbo Levo for expert 6 fattie 18th January 2018 the chain has snapped and bent the chain guide. This has only taken 28 days which I’m am shocked about.
I have barely used this bike and I was using it to walk the dog this morning. This happened from a standing start as soon as a started to ride.
I am a qualified mechanical engineer and have two other specialized bikes (not electric)
This is a design fault, the chain is not strong enough for the torque of the motor. I have lost confidence in this product and believe this will be a on going problem.

Rutland cycles have this reply:
Hi Jim,

Thank you for your email and the images. Due to the size of your original email I have been unable to reply in the same chain.

We are sorry to hear that you have experienced issues so early on.

Unfortunately chains are a wear and tear part and on occasion a chain may snap due to several circumstances not limited to; starting off in the wrong gear, shifting under load or having debris entering the drivetrain.

The torque of the motor will not be a factor in the sudden failure of the chainlink. The Levo motor produces at most 700-800w most chains are able to withstand over 2000w regularly.

To rectify this issue all you will need is a split link to join the chain back together, on some Levo's one even comes with the bike, located in the top cap area.

As the issue can be repaired and the bike has been ridden it cannot be returned.

Best regards,

Danielle


Customer Services

E: [email protected]

T: 0330 555 0080 lines open Monday to Friday 9.30am-5.00pm

Best regards,

Customer Services

I’m struggling to see the customer service ?

 

[Scooteretti]

@Jim Laslett Just a couple of questions.

1- Did your bike come with the SRAM PC 113 chain?

If yes by checking out the SRAM website and it seems this may not be a chain designed for E-bikes. I looked at the specs for the chain and no mention that the chain should be used on ebikes let alone E-Mtb's, especially mid drive units. This is very odd and will need to be checked out.

Here is a link to the SRAM site for recommended Emtb components. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Looking at the pic provided you certainly must ride off road so the damage to the link that broke may have happened on a previous ride. regardless if the chain is not an Emtb spec'd one this is probably the reason for the failure. If it is then it may be hard to get a resolution.

2- Can you confirm which chain is on your bike?

3- Did the chain break at the PowerLock link (quick link)? Or elsewhere on the chain?


If you do indeed have on of the non-recommended chains that are not shown on the link above, I would reach out to SRAM directly and explain the situation and ask them their thoughts on the chain supplied for use on a mid-drive Emtb. Then reach back out to your dealer / Specialized for a resolution if this chain was not designed for the application.


regards,


Will
shop.scooteretti.com

 

[Jim Laslett]

@Jim Laslett Just a couple of questions.

1- Did your bike come with the SRAM PC 113 chain?

If yes by checking out the SRAM website and it seems this may not be a chain designed for E-bikes. I looked at the specs for the chain and no mention that the chain should be used on ebikes let alone E-Mtb's, especially mid drive units. This is very odd and will need to be checked out.

Here is a link to the SRAM site for recommended Emtb components. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Looking at the pic provided you certainly must ride off road so the damage to the link that broke may have happened on a previous ride. regardless if the chain is not an Emtb spec'd one this is probably the reason for the failure. If it is then it may be hard to get a resolution.

2- Can you confirm which chain is on your bike?

3- Did the chain break at the PowerLock link (quick link)? Or elsewhere on the chain?


If you do indeed have on of the non-recommended chains that are not shown on the link above, I would reach out to SRAM directly and explain the situation and ask them their thoughts on the chain supplied for use on a mid-drive Emtb. Then reach back out to your dealer / Specialized for a resolution if this chain was not designed for the application.


regards,


Will
shop.scooteretti.com

The chain is SRAM

@Jim Laslett Just a couple of questions.

1- Did your bike come with the SRAM PC 113 chain?

If yes by checking out the SRAM website and it seems this may not be a chain designed for E-bikes. I looked at the specs for the chain and no mention that the chain should be used on ebikes let alone E-Mtb's, especially mid drive units. This is very odd and will need to be checked out.

Here is a link to the SRAM site for recommended Emtb components. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Looking at the pic provided you certainly must ride off road so the damage to the link that broke may have happened on a previous ride. regardless if the chain is not an Emtb spec'd one this is probably the reason for the failure. If it is then it may be hard to get a resolution.

2- Can you confirm which chain is on your bike?

3- Did the chain break at the PowerLock link (quick link)? Or elsewhere on the chain?


If you do indeed have on of the non-recommended chains that are not shown on the link above, I would reach out to SRAM directly and explain the situation and ask them their thoughts on the chain supplied for use on a mid-drive Emtb. Then reach back out to your dealer / Specialized for a resolution if this chain was not designed for the application.


regards,


Will
shop.scooteretti.com

Thank you for the advice very helpful, I do t think these ha e been tested properly and if they have I don’t want a bike I have to change the chain on every 28 days


The chain is SRAM PC-X1, to be honest from my engineering point of view any chain put on this sort of bike should not break so easy. I mean it’s an off road bike it should be able to take most punishment at £3750.
If it can’t I don’t want to be changing chains every 28 days. The chain should be strong enough to cope. For Rutland not to offer any help when the bike is still in warranty and there website offer a 30 day satisfaction on any electric bike, I’m contacting a retail solicitor and trading standards Monday. I’ve had the area manager contact me sounding panicked. The bottom line is this is a new bike costing £3750 now broken, by law they should offer to fix it or replace it. I am a touch annoyed.

 

[Jim Laslett]

The chain is SRAM


Thank you for the advice very helpful, I do t think these ha e been tested properly and if they have I don’t want a bike I have to change the chain on every 28 days


The chain is SRAM PC-X1, to be honest from my engineering point of view any chain put on this sort of bike should not break so easy. I mean it’s an off road bike it should be able to take most punishment at £3750.
If it can’t I don’t want to be changing chains every 28 days. The chain should be strong enough to cope. For Rutland not to offer any help when the bike is still in warranty and there website offer a 30 day satisfaction on any electric bike, I’m contacting a retail solicitor and trading standards Monday. I’ve had the area manager contact me sounding panicked. The bottom line is this is a new bike costing £3750 now broken, by law they should offer to fix it or replace it. I am a touch annoyed.

Also I left a review on this model and it didn’t appear even though I had email confirmation which means there filtering there reviews which is illegal

 

[Jim Laslett]

There is no mention on SRAM site that this chain is suitable for E - bike

 

[Scooteretti]

@Jim Laslett From my experience basic no ebike chains can break quite easily on mid drive units. Prior to having ebike specific chains there were many times where riders would snap them out on the trails and it was not uncommon for new one's to snap on occasion.

What may have happened here is the wrong chain was spec'd for the bike or there was a factory running change or error etc.......

Understand your annoyance and if the chain is indeed the wrong one for the application, the shop should have been a little more proactive with you the customer. In today's world doing research is easy and quick.

I still suggest making a call out to SRAM in the UK or by email and explain the situation. If they come back with a reply saying the chain isn't ideal then you should chat with the manufacturer/distributor to get this sorted if you are not happy with the shop.

keep me posted on your progress,



Will
shop.scooteretti.com

 

[Jim Laslett]

@Jim Laslett From my experience basic no ebike chains can break quite easily on mid drive units. Prior to having ebike specific chains there were many times where riders would snap them out on the trails and it was not uncommon for new one's to snap on occasion.

What may have happened here is the wrong chain was spec'd for the bike or there was a factory running change or error etc.......

Understand your annoyance and if the chain is indeed the wrong one for the application, the shop should have been a little more proactive with you the customer. In today's world doing research is easy and quick.

I still suggest making a call out to SRAM in the UK or by email and explain the situation. If they come back with a reply saying the chain isn't ideal then you should chat with the manufacturer/distributor to get this sorted if you are not happy with the shop.

keep me posted on your progress,



Will
shop.scooteretti.com

 

[Jim Laslett]

Cheers will

I agree, I am email SRAM now

 

[rich c]

A picture of the actual failed link would be nice. How can you predict this is a design issue and not a chain manufacturing issue? Have you any idea what kind of loads this chain is designed to withstand and what safety factor they engineer into it? Have you read about a rash of chain failures? As a qualified mechanical engineer, you should be well aware that one failure does not predict a failure in product design. I also see an issue with how you maintain the chain. If you just started the ride, where did all the mud come from? No chain is supposed to be left like that. Cleaning and a lube is a much preferred method of storing the bike. I too am a qualified mechanical engineer, spending a 30 year career at Caterpillar Inc. If we had a customer that had a single part failure on a machine, we would cover that part with a warranty. We would have to see a trend of identical failures, before the engineering department we went back into action.

 

[Jim Laslett]

All very valid points, I’ve emailed SRAM asking for the chain tolerances. This is an off road bike so I will be riding in the mud and expect the chain to cope with mud. The chain is so new it’s not within maintenance duration. I’ve been riding motorbikes since I was five in the mud and never had a chain snap. I’ve been cycling for 30 year and never
Had a chain snap. I know how to lube a chain as I used to be a motorbike mechanic.
I’m not here to argue this is information on this bike and the unhelpful retailer. I own to other specialized bikes which are great this is why I am so disappointed.
If I was the retailer I would of at the very least offered a new chain.

 

[Jim Laslett]

If this chain can’t cope with mud there’s little sense in putting on an off road bike

 

[Jim Laslett]

I also spent 3 yrs at citb in bircham newton doing my city and guilds in plant mechanics including engine rebuilding hydraulics electronics pneumatics welding and so on.
I can play the piano too!
Oh yeh I got an award in bench fitting from CITB
I rebuilt my first engine when I was twelve a Yamaha
Ty80!

 

[Jim Laslett]

A picture of the actual failed link would be nice. How can you predict this is a design issue and not a chain manufacturing issue? Have you any idea what kind of loads this chain is designed to withstand and what safety factor they engineer into it? Have you read about a rash of chain failures? As a qualified mechanical engineer, you should be well aware that one failure does not predict a failure in product design. I also see an issue with how you maintain the chain. If you just started the ride, where did all the mud come from? No chain is supposed to be left like that. Cleaning and a lube is a much preferred method of storing the bike. I too am a qualified mechanical engineer, spending a 30 year career at Caterpillar Inc. If we had a customer that had a single part failure on a machine, we would cover that part with a warranty. We would have to see a trend of identical failures, before the engineering department we went back into action.

How do you know this is not a design fault ?

 

[Jim Laslett]

A picture of the actual failed link would be nice. How can you predict this is a design issue and not a chain manufacturing issue? Have you any idea what kind of loads this chain is designed to withstand and what safety factor they engineer into it? Have you read about a rash of chain failures? As a qualified mechanical engineer, you should be well aware that one failure does not predict a failure in product design. I also see an issue with how you maintain the chain. If you just started the ride, where did all the mud come from? No chain is supposed to be left like that. Cleaning and a lube is a much preferred method of storing the bike. I too am a qualified mechanical engineer, spending a 30 year career at Caterpillar Inc. If we had a customer that had a single part failure on a machine, we would cover that part with a warranty. We would have to see a trend of identical failures, before the engineering department we went back into action.

 

[rich c]

I don't know it is a design fault, but you seem quite convinced it is. What kind of engineering work have you done to determine that? Any engineering calculations? I too have never seen a chain snap. To me this indicates a simple materials issue and not an engineering issue. You are suggesting that letting a chain sit filled with dirt, water and grime is an accepted way to maintain it? I think you will find yourself in the minority there.

 

[Jim Laslett]

Has anybody else had problems with the chain breaking on 2017 specialized turbo Levo FSR Expert 6fattie electric bike??

 

[Jim Laslett]

I don't, but you seem quite convinced it is. What kind of engineering work have you done to determine that? Any engineering calculations? I too have never seen a chain snap. To me this indicates a simple materials issue and not an engineering issue. You are suggesting that letting a chain sit filled with dirt, water and grime is an accepted way to maintain it? I think you will find yourself in the minority there.

I haven’t done any calculations that’s why I’m asking SRAM first saves me the job and they might say the chain is not suitable for this bike.
The dirt on the bike is from the night before, I personally don’t think this was the reason
For the chain snapping. I’ve only ridden the bike five times As I said if this chain can’t cope with mud there is little sense in fitting it to an off road bike. The chain will be working in mud and rain whilst using the bike. If I was to leave the bike for me more than one day I would clean and lube but seeing as this is light surface mud and the chain is new I would expect it to cope.
Do you work for specialized?

 

[rich c]

Do you work for specialized?

That's an odd question, I mentioned earlier I had a 30 year career at Caterpillar in post #9. There is plenty of tensile strength chain data on-line, but I don't know what SRAM chain you have.

 

[Jim Laslett]

I can fix this but I don’t want to because it cost a lot of money and shouldn’t of happened and I’m concerned it will happen again. I haven’t looked closely at the damage as it’s under warranty.
I have just looked at it closely and the chain has failed on the joining link.

 

[Jim Laslett]

I’m most likely gonna sell it