Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

Thanks for that, I understand there are a few teething problems but fully expected, what it is important to do is get the info out there as you have done..... Nobody really knows what is going on behind closed doors.... Anyways let me add one more to the list about the brake lever cut-off switch

 
Ann M. said:
@FTC Complaint this is interesting data; please post it on the Sonders First Impressions forum
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Ann

When you run through the list of Facebook Problems some are quite serious;

1) Sizing of the bike
2) Front Brake Problems
3) Electrical Arcing
4) Heat Buildup on contacts and loose contacts
5) Mechanical problems (lack of lubrication and tightening of fasteners)
6) Tire inflation problems - and flats
7) Battery does not stay mounted while riding
8) Lack of documentation
9) Electrical cutoff problems
10) Assembly errors At least 4 reversed forks
11) Seat post concerns


And YES, these concerns are factual as they are from the Sondors FB User Group Page.
 
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Some of these people sound like they have never own a bicycle before while some have no common sense. My favorite is "how do I stop if there is no curb around" LOL.
Now you guys see how Sondors can sell this bike at such a low price? He use very cheap parts and I always knew there was a profit to be made even at $500 + 200 for shipping.
 
@vincent713 I laughed at that one too, the answer is so simple - wear high heels!

Sondors claimed at the outset of the campaign that he could only hit the low price point by manufacturing all of the components himself, and no doubt because he once designed happy meal toys for mcd's he had the skills to do so...... Or to forget about this false claim and buy as you rightly suggest, source cheap components for an entry-level ebike.

Not even Ivars can be held accountable for some saying the frame is too big, others saying the frame is too small.....
 
Chas said:
@Adrian – with all respect, most fat bikes are designed for around 10mph. Specifically this bike’s tires are not designed or certified for 20+ mph. There are many (non fat bike) tires that are. Also, there is a big difference in brakes between the bottom tier and mid tier.

I’ve ridden well designed brakes on a 500lb bike at 40mph (fully loaded Trek touring tandem), but some wall mart brakes would scare me at 15mph.

The Storm bike isn’t really designed for anything the way a Trek or Specialized is designed, tested, analyzed, & refined. Yes, those bikes are designed for 30mph, but a big box retail store bike is not. There is a huge difference.

And speaking from personal experience, it really, really hurts when something critical on my bike brakes at speeds of 25-30mph (not to mention the trip to the hospital).
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Well, I have to disagree with your assessment on fatbikes "designed for around 10mph". Maybe that's the expected average given the kind of terrain they were designed to see - off road, sand and snow - but really, you think the parts were manufactured with the expectation that all those hills people climb would be descended at 10mph? lol No, I think not.

As for the tires, I'd be surprised if there were many tires certified to run as fast as they are able - there's liability to think of. 20mph is not very fast. You can peddle that speed without a motor and many people do - can't say I've ever even heard of anyone suffering a catastrophic tire failure. Flats, yes, but that's the nature of tubes.

Perhaps I'm wrong and there are far more people hospitalized than I've heard of - must be a lot of litigation of poorly manufactured bikes too.

I can't comment on the Sondors bike as I've not seen it nor do I know what parts it used but any bike that isn't safe to ride down a hill at speeds greater than 10mph shouldn't be on the market. And yes, I'd be surprised if more expensive brands weren't manufactured to much higher standards - that doesn't mean that crappy bikes can't be ridden at 30mph down a hill - which people do all the time.
 
IMHO...claiming certain adult bikes cannot or are not meant to be ridden over 10 MPH isn't completely factual.

A lot of the stress a bike encounters is due to factors like drivers weight , and driving conditions.

I certainly would be concerned if someone that weighed 300 lbs and wanted to ride a $ 99 walmart bike cross country or on downhill trials doing 20 mph .

But, you could probably take that same bike, and put a 110 lb Chinese man on it, and he could safely ride on flat road surfaces at 20 mph, without severely
stressing the bikes frame and dropouts/tires/brakes.
 
FWIW..... my wifes electric dolomite fatbike weighs around 70 lbs , and my wife weighs around 160 lbs . So that's a total weight of 230 lbs and her ebike will do 30 mph, and we regularly ride on dirt trails, gravel roads, harsh conditions.
 
The latest...
Mo money, mo money, mo money!

1 hour ago
Are you in the next wave? PLEASE READ: We're working on getting the next wave out before October, but we need you to pay for shipping and for the remaining balance as soon as possible so we can fire production back up ASAP.
Please pay for shipping and remaining balance by end of next week if possible. Color Surveys will go out early next week too.
In the mean time, check out some pics from the current wave!
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Hurley said:
We're working on getting the next wave out before October, but we need you to pay for shipping and for the remaining balance as soon as possible so we can fire production back up ASAP.
Click to expand...

Why would you halt production, only to resume it months later, especially if you knew what orders you have on your books?

The July 29th court date stands between "wave one" and delivery of "wave two."
 
Chas said:
Speed of an electric motor is determined by the motor design (say 250rpm at 36v) and the voltage applied. The only way to increase the speed of the motor is to apply more voltage. Increasing the amperage will increase the pulling power, but will not change your speed.

Any hub motor (or controller) will overheat if you push too much energy through it at low enough speeds.

A typical 36v 350 watt motor will never overheat on a flat hard surface. Even at 48v, it will never overheat on a flat dry surface where it can run in its zone of efficiency. However, if you go full throttle at slower speeds for long enough, it will overheat. Think deep sand, steep hill, or something else that slows you down. For a 10% grade, the stock 36v motor will overheat in 6 minutes at full throttle at 7mph. At 7mph & 48volts, it will overheat at 2.3 minutes. You can do more power, it will just overheat quicker.

(Calculations are based of a 200rpm 350 watt Q100 with 15amp controller).

If you want to run a 350watt bike (aka Sondors or similar) @48v, just use a low amp controller similar to what comes on the bike (~14 amps 48v 6mosfets), and don’t spend a lot of time at full throttle below 10mph. Odds are that you will be ok.

Ops, I just realized he is using a 260 rpm motor. That motor is going to be more stressed than a 200rpm motor, especially at 48volts. It is easier to take a small motor from 15 to 20mph, than from 20mph to 25mph.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply, this is very useful information. I feel more confident when I decide to upgrade my ebikes. :) Euro & Asia ebikes have a speed limiter and can only go 17mph max speed while US ebikes go 20mph. Do you happen to know how to turn off this limiter and make it go 20mph?
 
Yes FTC I find it very interesting to threaten backers in this way. First of all, they have a separate site they are taking orders on at "http://gosondors.com/" so why stop building bikes in the first place???

Rather than update people on how many bikes have been delivered and other needed info he does this. Give me more money, or else...

Update: The genius of Sondors. Well, it worked. Sondors is collecting another $194 every 5-6 minutes now.
 
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If you don't pay a balance owed, you won't get your bike. Sounds simple enough. The "production" bit is strange and wasn't needed.
 
PowerMe said:
If you don't pay a balance owed, you won't get your bike. Sounds simple enough. The "production" bit is strange and wasn't needed.
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Or was it? Sondors is "man-handling" backers into more money without clear indication that thousands of bikes have already been delivered, especially off USA soil. I would call it more than strange. It is a threat!

I also find it actually strange that Sondors bike recipients feel so much joy, that they feel a need to say "Go Sondors". How many fantastic consumer items have illicit-ed such a response?
 
PowerMe said:
If you don't pay a balance owed, you won't get your bike. Sounds simple enough. The "production" bit is strange and wasn't needed.
Click to expand...

Yes it's simple, alright. Lots of simple things to be seen if you look hard enough. Here's a simple question for you: why aren't the people who put down their money back in February and sooner, AND paid all shipping fees in full - getting their bikes now?
 
PowerMe said:
People who paid for shipping are getting their bikes. People who haven't paid yet need to do so. That's how I understand it.

As for enthusiasm, seems fairly normal if folks are feeling happy with their new toy.
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I paid my shipping - $247 international. So did thousands of other international buyers. So where are OUR bikes? No new toys for us, Ivars is too busy blowing our money on toys of his own. What a pillar of the community!

Sad truth, but at least it's simple:

The reason nobody's getting any bikes, and none are being made is.... Ivars stole, and spent, all of the backers' money. After all, it's what this deadbeat actually does for a living.

There's nothing left to build or ship anything. The last bikes they could afford to build are already in the hands of a lucky few US (because they can't afford international shipping) backers. This latest update is simply IGG/Ivars/whoever's doing their PR today scrambling to assemble two cents to rub together and keep this fiasco going. They're on the brink of collapse now.

Pitiful, but not surprising in the least. A few items to consider:

http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...e-crowdfunding-partner-i-feel-like-i-was-had/

"During the campaign, according to Jonathan [Chaupin, COO of Agency 2.0.], there were periods where Ivars withdrew $50,000 at a time from his PayPal account, which occurred multiple times. While the funds certainly could have been taken out for valid reasons, I can understand if this caused some internal concern. Asked if he was aware of the previous fraud judgement against Ivars, Jonathan stated they discovered this fact only after the campaign began – something that was unveiled by the diligence of the crowd."

In a rather candid discussion with Jon Hopp, he shared that he had been hoodwinked and trusted Ivars when a bit of caution would have been better. Jon stated bluntly, “I feel like I was had.”

“Sondors seems to not value his reputation much if at all. That worries me. I have little choice but to disassociate myself from Sondors,” said Hopp.

This lawsuit is costing each side, and every individual, substantial money. Is Sondors using campaign funds to pay his legal bills?

“He seems to have an amazing ability to ignore the promises he makes,” said Jon [Hopp]. “I have no idea if Ivars will deliver as promised, nobody does. But …. if he could keep one promise I hope it is to the backers.”
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http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/201...-against-sondors-ebike-crowdfunding-campaign/

Toyjobs president Tom Keoughan said: “I certainly expect that Mr. Sondors will try to make it difficult to collect but we have chased him for over three years across two continents. He should realize by now that we’re not going away.

If a campaign is not willing to abide by a contractual commitment for services rendered to the company that managed its success – how willing is it to follow through on its commitment to deliver promised bikes?
Click to expand...

And if anyone thinks I'm gloating, or happy at this news, think again. I stand to lose about $1500 when this *** finally hits the fan.
 
Looks like the end of the line. I hope the frog is really a prince.

"We Live Again"

These withered hands
Have dug for a dream
Sifted through sand
And leftover nightmares
Over the hill
A desolate wind
Turns s*it to gold
And blows my soul crazy
The end
O the end
We live again
O I grow weary of the end

 
PowerMe@ said...
If you don't pay a balance owed, you won't get your bike. Sounds simple enough. The "production" bit is strange and wasn't needed.
(END QUOTE).

Conversely, if you don't pay for $500,000 worth of advertising and marketing, you still get the benefit from it.
 
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