Quality commuter recommendation

[pmcdonald]

I may have some issues with my current ride, a 2015 BH Evo Cross. It's been awesome but of late the repair bills are starting to stack up, plus the battery is starting to fade. If I can't get the current issue with the rear hub fixed I may be in the market for a new bike.

My wish-list after thousand's of km's of commuting with my Evo includes: a strong, quiet mid drive motor (I'm done with hubs), 500W battery, belt drive if possible, low mess, low maintenance, reliability and reasonable local support for components (I'm based in a regional Australia city).

This is my shortlist:

• $4100 Focus Aventura 6.6
• $3999 Avanti Explorer E2
• $3799 Scott Sub Cross Eride
• $3999 Gazelle Cityzen T10
• $3100 Lekker E-Amsterdam with belt
• $3199 Giant Explore E+ 4
• $3500 Earth T-Rex
• $3399 Cube Touring Hybrid ONE 500

Prices in $AUD. There's some names I see here on EBR - OHM, Dost, Bulls - that just aren't available in Australia so I've limited the list to what's around.

Any standouts on the list? Any bikes I should scratch outright?

TBH the cheapest bike on the list, the Lekker E-Amsterdam, comes closest to meeting my specs with an optional carbon belt and internal gear hub. But will it hold up to the daily grind of all weather commuting? And how does the Bafang motor compare to the Bosch's, Shimano's and Yamaha's? My Evo sports a Bafang which has been fine, aside from a growing number of error codes and when I get flats.

Is there noticeable difference in omph and noise between the Active and Performance Bosch motors? That'll determine whether I look at the $4k bikes or sub $3.5k bikes.

I'll be test riding as much as I can, but options are pretty much limited to the Giant, Gazelle and Lekker locally.

And are Bosch still the go to for motors or have the others caught up in terms of responsiveness, noise and power delivery?

My commute is 20 km a day with some gradient involved for reference. It's all sealed with a mix of road and shared paths, albeit often with lots of glass and debris. I run Marathons but still get punctures

 

[TomD]

TBH the cheapest bike on the list, the Lekker E-Amsterdam, comes closest to meeting my specs with an optional carbon belt and internal gear hub.

Looks like a Bafang Max on that bike. Little sister to the 1000W Bafang Ultra. Same size, but no throttle and 250-350W spec. Lighter weight and does not have metal gears so quieter than the Ultra. You can check out some reviews on EBR with the Bafang Max, for example the Volton Alation reviews.

how does the Bafang motor compare to the Bosch's, Shimano's and Yamaha's

Depending on what version of the Max you get I think it might be more powerful, but the torque sensing on the Bafang Ultra and Max isn't as refined as Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, or Brose. With the Max and Ultra you can tune the torque sensing parameters somewhat, but the reason to go with the Ultra is more the raw power for the money. I suppose with the Max you are saving money and able to pair with inexpensive aftermarket batteries. I believe the Max will ultimately be replaced with the M200/M500/M600.

Not sure if it would make sense to look at Frey. They focus on the Ultra but don't specialize in belt drives.

The Frey HT1000 - And yes, HT stands for Hardtail! *updated*

It's coming! After some time well spent pestering poor Ivy at Frey, they've given in and the OK has been given to announce the upcoming Frey HT1000! So far the only two details known are that this bike will feature the Bafang G510 mid mount motor, and a selection of top shelf components. You...

endless-sphere.com

 

[pmcdonald]

The Frey looks like incredible value for money - can they be speed and power limited? Those specs look like they'd blow through Australian Ebike laws (something like 250W output over an hour, max 25 km/h assist)

 

[TomD]

You should be able to program max watts and speed via a USB programming cable. You can also get the eggrider display to program and have on/off road setting. I'm not that familiar with what else you might need to do to make it legal down under. This guy bought a CC and is in Australia.

Frey CC ordered!

I really haven't seen much spoken about the Frey CC. Micah and a couple of others have briefly discussed the bike but I don't think it has gotten as much attention as other bikes Frey are selling as it has a very different market than the bikes they typically sell (although I bet a lot are used...

endless-sphere.com

Edit: since the Frey bikes are pretty heavy not sure if programming down to 250W would make them too sluggish. Might not be the best option if you want to be 100% legal.

I run Marathons but still get punctures

Have you looked in to Tannus Armour?

 

[pmcdonald]

You should be able to program max watts and speed via a USB programming cable. You can also get the eggrider display to program and have on/off road setting. I'm not that familiar with what else you might need to do to make it legal down under. This guy bought a CC and is in Australia.

Frey CC ordered!

I really haven't seen much spoken about the Frey CC. Micah and a couple of others have briefly discussed the bike but I don't think it has gotten as much attention as other bikes Frey are selling as it has a very different market than the bikes they typically sell (although I bet a lot are used...

endless-sphere.com

Thanks for the link. On reading it ... I think I'll take a pass. The Australian user reports some very premature rusting of bolts without the bike even seeing rain, and I certainly intend to commute rain, hail or shine. If it wasn't my primary source of transport for getting to work I think I'd be more willing to take a chance on a mail order bike. Given how mission critical it is to my life I think I want one with local support. It may just be limited to rusty bolts which.. meh.. but it may be something more critical, which would knock my bike out for weeks or months. In retrospect that cuts my list down to:

• $3999 Avanti Explorer E2
• $3799 Scott Sub Cross Eride
• $3999 Gazelle Cityzen T10
• $3100 Lekker E-Amsterdam with belt
• $3199 Giant Explore E+ 4 or similar
• $4199 Merida 20 eSPRESSO 700 EQ (new addition to the list)

Have you looked in to Tannus Armour?

Indeed! My tubes are heavily slimed at the moment but if I get One. More. Puncture I'll get the Armour installed. Or even consider the AITHER solid tyre!

 

[TomD]

That's somewhat abnormal for Frey. Then again, probably not your best option if you plan to be legal.

Around here the Giant Explore E+ 4 is a popular budget option. Nice looking bike and integrated battery. Battery capacity is kind of small at 400 wh but that seems to be the case for most of the bikes you're looking at. The SyncDrive Sport is essentially a Yamaha PW motor but seems it's been tweaked it to perform better than the original PW in terms of cadence support. I think it also has sensors to detect hills, etc to give you more support on inclines. I'm perfectly happy with my PW - It's a fairly quiet motor and quite peppy.

I think it comes down to what mid motor characteristics you want and the style of bike you prefer. I'd probably want a 500wh or larger battery for commuting but your commuite isn't that far. If you like techy stuff like phone app connecting to motor avoid the Bafang Max (although you might be able to get that with the eggrider display).

Here's a break down of your choices by motor.

SyncDrive Sport (Yamaha PW)
Giant Explore E+ 4

Bosch Gen 3 Active Line Plus
Avanti Explorer E2

Bosch Performance (not sure what generation, the newer gen are smaller and quieter)
Scott Sub Cross Eride
Gazelle Cityzen T10

Bafang Max
Lekker E-Amsterdam with belt

Shimano E6100
Merida 20 eSPRESSO 700 EQ

Here's a good comparison of the bosch motors: https://newwheel.net/motor-systems#bosch

I would probably avoid noisier motors which include some of the older generation Bosch.

You can do some googling regarding the characteristics of the other motors you're considering.

 

[pmcdonald]

Thank you so much for all the motor information. I've had some bad news on my Evo Cross problem, so I can either throw some serious money into an aging bike or cut my losses and invest in a new ride. The latter is beginning to look preferable. Pity - it was riding so beautifully until the rear hub started to fall apart...

After some chopping and changing, and a little more LBS research this is my shortlist:

• Focus Aventura 6.6 / Planet 6.7 (powerful, new CX motors)
• Gazelle Cityzen T10 (but this looks like the older Bosch motor, so could be relatively noisy)
• Lekker E-Amsterdam Gen 2 (for the left field option)
• Cube Touring Hybrid ONE 500 (to see if the Active Line Plus Gen 3 will cut it)
• Merida 20 eSPRESSO 700 EQ (Shimano option)

Next step is to go test ride some and see what feels right

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Do Specialized sell Turbo Vado in Australia?

 

[TomD]

I wouldn't write off the Giant. I wonder if you'll really notice much of a power difference between motors with at 25km cutoff?

You might want to test ride something with a Brose motor (tend to be the smoothest and quietest IME). Looks like Specialized sells the Vado 3.0 in AU.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

I have a Vado 4.0 for commuting. It is absolutely silent compared to Bosch. Also the assist is very subtle it just feels like you have become stronger because you don’t feel the assist kick in. Comes with fenders and a rack for carrying your work needs. My only complaint is that some batteries are very difficult to install and even then they unlock while riding. I have been adjusting mine to try to get a happy medium. I would suggest a long test ride over various surfaces with the actual bike you intend to buy.

 

[Browneye]

That's somewhat abnormal for Frey. Then again, probably not your best option if you plan to be legal.

Around here the Giant Explore E+ 4 is a popular budget option. Nice looking bike and integrated battery. Battery capacity is kind of small at 400 wh but that seems to be the case for most of the bikes you're looking at. The SyncDrive Sport is essentially a Yamaha PW motor but seems it's been tweaked it to perform better than the original PW in terms of cadence support. I think it also has sensors to detect hills, etc to give you more support on inclines. I'm perfectly happy with my PW - It's a fairly quiet motor and quite peppy.

I think it comes down to what mid motor characteristics you want and the style of bike you prefer. I'd probably want a 500wh or larger battery for commuting but your commuite isn't that far. If you like techy stuff like phone app connecting to motor avoid the Bafang Max (although you might be able to get that with the eggrider display).

Here's a break down of your choices by motor.

SyncDrive Sport (Yamaha PW)
Giant Explore E+ 4

Bosch Gen 3 Active Line Plus
Avanti Explorer E2

Bosch Performance (not sure what generation, the newer gen are smaller and quieter)
Scott Sub Cross Eride
Gazelle Cityzen T10

Bafang Max
Lekker E-Amsterdam with belt

Shimano E6100
Merida 20 eSPRESSO 700 EQ

Here's a good comparison of the bosch motors: https://newwheel.net/motor-systems#bosch

I would probably avoid noisier motors which include some of the older generation Bosch.

You can do some googling regarding the characteristics of the other motors you're considering.

^^This.
And go test ride as many as you possibly can.

Another HUGE fan of Yamaha and Sync-Drive here - I have three of them now! They're nearly bulletproof, and performance is excellent.

 

[Browneye]

I thought hubs were supposed to be more reliable than mid-drive?

>snip

Says whom, exactly?

 

[TomD]

A direct drive hub perhaps but geared hub no.

 

[pmcdonald]

Thanks for the follow ups! I'll test a Vado 3.0 but here they're $4500, which creeps outside my budget. I'll keep an eye out for specials and ex-demos though

 

[pmcdonald]

I wouldn't write off the Giant. I wonder if you'll really notice much of a power difference between motors with at 25km cutoff?

It's back on my list. I guess for the cost savings I could put that towards another battery down the track if I wanted extended range.

 

[pmcdonald]

Thank you everyone for their suggestions.

The diagnosis came back from the workshop that the rear hub on my Evo Cross was failing. 3 local stores wouldn't touch a repair, combined with a fading battery, a few other repairs and a shaky global supply chain sold me on a new bike.

I settled on a Giant Explore +1 after looking closely at the local options (Merida, Lekker, Trek, Avanti, Specialised).

The Giant is lovely, torquey motor, great components (though I did swap the saddle and stock tyres with my Marathons). 20 gears is nice too.

The only downside is I've lost about 4 km/h off my cruising speed - the Giant motor cuts out a little earlier than the Evo Cross and the bike seems harder to push up to and beyond 30 km/h. But yeah, great bike and I hope it'll prove reliable for years to come.

 

[Browneye]

Thank you everyone for their suggestions.

The diagnosis came back from the workshop that the rear hub on my Evo Cross was failing. 3 local stores wouldn't touch a repair, combined with a fading battery, a few other repairs and a shaky global supply chain sold me on a new bike.

I settled on a Giant Explore +1 after looking closely at the local options (Merida, Lekker, Trek, Avanti, Specialised).

The Giant is lovely, torquey motor, great components (though I did swap the saddle and stock tyres with my Marathons). 20 gears is nice too.

The only downside is I've lost about 4 km/h off my cruising speed - the Giant motor cuts out a little earlier than the Evo Cross and the bike seems harder to push up to and beyond 30 km/h. But yeah, great bike and I hope it'll prove reliable for years to come.

If you really have to have greater speed, when warranty is no longer an issue, a limit unlocker can go all the way to 45kmh without issue. Over 40 they really use the pack up though.

Giant offers good quality at a very good price point. The bikes are pretty nice too.

 

[pmcdonald]

If you really have to have greater speed, when warranty is no longer an issue, a limit unlocker can go all the way to 45kmh without issue. Over 40 they really use the pack up though.

Giant offers good quality at a very good price point. The bikes are pretty nice too.

Yes, it feels like it has a lot more go in it. Hitting 25 km/h in Sport+ mode (which I'll be honest, is the mode I usually sit in) feels like running in to a wall.

But I'm committed to a serious, long term relationship with this bike so I'll live with the limit and learn to slow down and appreciate the journey!

 

[E-Wheels]

I'll live with the limit and learn to slow down and appreciate the journey!

Whats the saying, enjoy the journey, not the destination

 

[Browneye]

Yep, what I do, it's fast enough. There are times I'll pedal past, maybe to 35-37kmh. Downhill the mtb will hit nearly 50. Lol

I may still do a mod at some point, just for those occasions you want a couple more KM's.

I can also fully appreciate roadies wanting a little more speed. Some peeps here are adamant about it.