haibike xduro-superrace vs Specialized Turbo
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Chris Nolte
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We don't sell the Turbo currently, but I had the Specialized rep at my shop last week and it's quite a nice ride. Brambor above has the bike and along with several other members here. It seems most of them really like the bike and in my opinion the fit and finish is top notch. The GoSwiss motor is also super smooth. That being said the Super Race is my bike of choice out of everything on the market today, although we haven't gotten our first shipment yet. It's supposed to arrive this month. There aren't too many people that have actually ridden that specific bike, although Court has when he went to visit them in California.
I personally am just a huge fan of the Bosch system and it's efficiency. The way it senses and adapts to your riding style beats everything else on the market in my opinion. This of course comes at a cost, as Bosch powered bikes are generally $1000 more than most comparable hub powered bikes. The Bosch system is also a little less stealthy compared to other bikes like the Turbo or bikes from Easy Motion due to the battery design. In closing I'm sure you'll be very happy with either bike, but the components on the Super Race are a little higher end and you'll see a longer range with a Bosch powered bike, provided you use the gears properly.
I personally am just a huge fan of the Bosch system and it's efficiency. The way it senses and adapts to your riding style beats everything else on the market in my opinion. This of course comes at a cost, as Bosch powered bikes are generally $1000 more than most comparable hub powered bikes. The Bosch system is also a little less stealthy compared to other bikes like the Turbo or bikes from Easy Motion due to the battery design. In closing I'm sure you'll be very happy with either bike, but the components on the Super Race are a little higher end and you'll see a longer range with a Bosch powered bike, provided you use the gears properly.
Ravi Kempaiah
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That's exactly my thought.
I rode Haibike Xduro FS RX and Trekking RX. I just dint feel the adrenaline rush that I get from my Neo but very nice bikes though.
Ravi Kempaiah
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I feel it's a great bike for mountain biking. For city riding, the advantage over hub motor is not that substantial. It wasn't super easy to get it up to 27mph as the motor cuts out at 20mph sharp.
Bosch is redesigning their system and it will be interesting to see what they bring in for 2015 and 2016.
I was all in for the Specialized Turbo S, but I really like the Bosch mid-level motor.
Compared to the GoSwiss motor how do you think the Bosch motor will hold up riding mostly on the street and on trails?
What about hub vs mid motor?
I'm planning to use the bike daily +100 miles a week. The commute will be 5-10 more minutes each way vs car...with the option of taking a bus/subway if I get tired.
I like the weight of the Haibike 37lbs vs ~50lbs for the Turbo.
I'm also concerned about loosing power and having to peddle the bike for a few miles if I run out of juice.
Should I consider something else?
I don't care about the price for the bike because gas, parking, maintenance for my car will be recouped in 5 months of riding either bike.
There is a closeout sale for the Turbo in my area.
I'm also concerned about buying a product that is just being excepted in the US. It appears that mid-motor is the future.
Compared to the GoSwiss motor how do you think the Bosch motor will hold up riding mostly on the street and on trails?
What about hub vs mid motor?
I'm planning to use the bike daily +100 miles a week. The commute will be 5-10 more minutes each way vs car...with the option of taking a bus/subway if I get tired.
I like the weight of the Haibike 37lbs vs ~50lbs for the Turbo.
I'm also concerned about loosing power and having to peddle the bike for a few miles if I run out of juice.
Should I consider something else?
I don't care about the price for the bike because gas, parking, maintenance for my car will be recouped in 5 months of riding either bike.
There is a closeout sale for the Turbo in my area.
I'm also concerned about buying a product that is just being excepted in the US. It appears that mid-motor is the future.
Ravi Kempaiah
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Ravi Kempaiah
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I know the Turbo you're talking about. Is it from spokes etc? in Vienna?
They had 2013 model on sale for $4300. But the battery wasn't 522Whr!
Better option would be look at
Grace MX2 trail speed pedelec:
http://www.grace-bikes.com/Bikes/Mx2
Stromer ST2:
http://www.stromerbike.com
And Focus Thron Impulse:
http://newwheel.net/products/focus-thron-s10-full-suspension-speed-electric-bike
I'm planning to purchase Focus thron impulse speed or Stromer ST2 as soon as it's available. Both of these have significantly more battery than the Grace or Bosch power packs. Let me know if you're interested in a group buy.
I live around NIH in Bethesda. I was going to use the CCT to get to work. After reading the CCT forums, I'm sure I'm going to piss off one lady on the board.
Funny thing is I grabbed a "premium" bike from Big Wheels off of Lee Highway and I know there were times I was going over 25MPH
I'm down for the group buy. I've gotten two nice cars that way.....so yet again trolling on forums works
Yep, I was looking at the ST S at Spokes. I know it is a 2013 model
I don't like the center console or "turbo" buttons. I like the joystiq on the 2014 model. However, I figured I could sale the bike to grab a ST2 or Haibike SR if they are delayed.I'm going to compare the ST1, ST S, and IZip Dash at Spokes Vienna. I think the one is Asburn has one too. The most knowledgeable guy was "on vacation".
In the beginning I really wanted a ST2, however I have zero idea when it will come out. Plus, I don't know how the digital panel will last in bad weather. Plus, after a lot of reading..I'm not sure I like the ST1.
I briefly looked at the Grace MX2. I think I'll look at it again.
I have not heard of the Focus Thron Impulse. I'll take a look.
I'm all about going fast, but I'm practical and I want a daily workout.
What's your time frame?
Chris Nolte
Well-Known Member
I agree with the feelings and thoughts here. I feel the strength of the Neo is the power off the line and they are certainly excellent bikes for the money. I think they will still continue to dominate the market for some time to come. There is little that can compete with them currently.
For range and hill climbing ability there is little that can compete with a mid-drive although the EM bikes certainly handle hills well for a hub motor.
Regarding the Impulse 2, I think it's awesome! I got to test them out in Germany and I loved them. I feel they are very comparable to the Bosch motor. In fact there are many features that make them superior, including the ability to tune the motor to different rider profiles, shift sensing technology and the climb assist (helping you along when you get bogged down climbing a mountain). Derby is an awesome company and they are really great about offering quality bikes and parts. I'm excited to share the new lineup with you guys soon which will should start shipping early next year. We worked with the New Wheel and another US retailer to narrow down the bikes that will fit well for the US market and I'm sure they'll be a big hit!
Ultimately it's a matter of preference and I think the US generally will lean more towards hub motor bikes that include a throttle, but overtime I think people will start to better appreciate the efficiency and refinement of mid-drives like the Impulse of Bosch.
I do feel the speed issue in the US is a big feat that needs to be addressed as well. Most riders want a faster bike, so the 20mph speed limit is often not enough for commuting, although it's really more than enough or trails. To think the UK and AUS have a 15mph limit. We are really still in our infancy in regards to legislation for ebikes so it will be interesting to see where it goes. I am currently looking at the ability to register a speed pedelec in NY as a moped. I think it's possible if I cut through the red tape.
Until then most will fly under the radar and some utilize speed hacks to over-ride the speed limit.
For range and hill climbing ability there is little that can compete with a mid-drive although the EM bikes certainly handle hills well for a hub motor.
Regarding the Impulse 2, I think it's awesome! I got to test them out in Germany and I loved them. I feel they are very comparable to the Bosch motor. In fact there are many features that make them superior, including the ability to tune the motor to different rider profiles, shift sensing technology and the climb assist (helping you along when you get bogged down climbing a mountain). Derby is an awesome company and they are really great about offering quality bikes and parts. I'm excited to share the new lineup with you guys soon which will should start shipping early next year. We worked with the New Wheel and another US retailer to narrow down the bikes that will fit well for the US market and I'm sure they'll be a big hit!
Ultimately it's a matter of preference and I think the US generally will lean more towards hub motor bikes that include a throttle, but overtime I think people will start to better appreciate the efficiency and refinement of mid-drives like the Impulse of Bosch.
I do feel the speed issue in the US is a big feat that needs to be addressed as well. Most riders want a faster bike, so the 20mph speed limit is often not enough for commuting, although it's really more than enough or trails. To think the UK and AUS have a 15mph limit. We are really still in our infancy in regards to legislation for ebikes so it will be interesting to see where it goes. I am currently looking at the ability to register a speed pedelec in NY as a moped. I think it's possible if I cut through the red tape.
Until then most will fly under the radar and some utilize speed hacks to over-ride the speed limit.
Chris Nolte
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Sorry it looks like the above post never went through and I am late to the convo. That's cool that you guys are near each other.
Ravi Kempaiah
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I'm down for the group buy. I've gotten two nice cars that way.....so yet again trolling on forums works
Yep, I was looking at the ST S at Spokes. I know it is a 2013 model
I'm going to compare the ST1, ST S, and IZip Dash at Spokes Vienna. I think the one is Asburn has one too. The most knowledgeable guy was "on vacation".
In the beginning I really wanted a ST2, however I have zero idea when it will come out. Plus, I don't know how the digital panel will last in bad weather. Plus, after a lot of reading..I'm not sure I like the ST1.
I briefly looked at the Grace MX2. I think I'll look at it again.
I have not heard of the Focus Thron Impulse. I'll take a look.
I'm all about going fast, but I'm practical and I want a daily workout.
What's your time frame?
My time frame = soon after Interbike 2014 ( Interbike is the largest ebike expo in the US and some new models are expected to debut, so waiting on that).
I don't think Spokes has ST1 Elite or Platinum. I have ridden the Dash and the Peak at that store. There are numerous reviews here about the Dash and the ST1 here on the forum.
I don't think Stromer will delay the ST2 beyond September as the season really begins to wind down and demand goes down. But that's just a guess.
I really like the ST1 platinum for commuting. It is fast and well built. With a Thudbuster or NCX, it's a great ride.
I now have a full suspension Neo Jumper and it's great but I could certainly do with a higher speed motor and larger battery.
So far Focus Thron Impulse has topped the list. Both ST2 and Thron Impulse are expensive but with a group buy, we could get as much as 30-40% off of MSRP. I do share the same concern regards to ST2's high-tech gadgetry and the reliability of GPS tracking if the AT&T signal is spotty.
BTW, I visit NIH every week and if you're around let me know.
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DashRiprock
Active Member
Trying to stay on topic and keeping with the alternate models mentioned above...yet what are the features and overall build/motor qualities which qualify all of the bikes recommended above as equals with the OP's two models...as opposed to say the (much) lesser expensive Currie Peak model? (which we own). I'm not sure what folks are paying (especially in the big city) yet it seems that you could purchase two Peaks for some of these bikes if they held up anywhere near as well.
I understand the pecking order in any line, quality of components, etc...yet when I marvel at what this Peak can do and how smoothly the power is applied through sensing...is it simply because I have no idea what true build quality consists of or what a good mid-drive truly feels like?
Apologies to the OP if this is off-topic; I will delete if it is.
I understand the pecking order in any line, quality of components, etc...yet when I marvel at what this Peak can do and how smoothly the power is applied through sensing...is it simply because I have no idea what true build quality consists of or what a good mid-drive truly feels like?
Apologies to the OP if this is off-topic; I will delete if it is.
Ravi Kempaiah
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Nothing is off-topic here, Dash
It's a very good question. To put it simply, what is the difference between a Civic, Accord and Cadillac? all of them get you from point A to point B.
Some people like Civic, few other prefer Accord and if you can splurge, Cadillac would be great too.
The good thing is, purchasing one or two ebikes won't break you bank and don't need insurance.
Focus' Impulse drive train has great reputation EU and comes with really nice Magura MT4, Fox shocks, and a whopping 612 Wh battery. From pragmatic POV, E3 Peak is a great bike.
Check out some Stromer, Haibikes, Focus et al., you'll add one more to your stable.
Chris Nolte
Well-Known Member
Well, we just got word the original shipment of Super Races won't be arriving as expected so we might not be seeing any more until next Spring. I'll know more after meeting with the Winora Group next week in Eurobike though. Hopefully I'll return with some good news.
DashRiprock
Active Member
Nothing is off-topic here, Dash
It's a very good question. To put it simply, what is the difference between a Civic, Accord and Cadillac? all of them get you from point A to point B.
Some people like Civic, few other prefer Accord and if you can splurge, Cadillac would be great too.
The good thing is, purchasing one or two ebikes won't break you bank and don't need insurance.
Focus' Impulse drive train has great reputation EU and comes with really nice Magura MT4, Fox shocks, and a whopping 612 Wh battery. From pragmatic POV, E3 Peak is a great bike.
Check out some Stromer, Haibikes, Focus et al., you'll add one more to your stable.
Understood...yet I suppose that I simply take a look at Chris' post above involving a $7,800 MSRP unit which Court reviewed in April of this year...not (possibly) being available until April of next...and think to myself...why in the heck would I lay that kind of cash down for the "Cadillac" (here in the U.S)....especially when the sport hasn't developed enough to even (generally) announce new models but once a year? (while you might have to wait unit the next, to take delivery!). It just kind of boggles my mind that I can pick up one of these for less MSRP (starts at :50 and yes, I understand the economies of scale):
...back to your originally scheduled program in hopes that the OP gets his questions answered:
I'm going to try to commute 30 miles round trip daily.
Most of my ride will be on paths in DC.
I am debating between getting a Specialized Turbo S or a Haibike SR.
Has anyone ridden the Haibike SR?
Thoughts on the Turbo S?
Ravi Kempaiah
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I completely agree with you Dash.
After a certain price point, let's say $4000, it becomes more of "look, what I can afford" rather than true performance.
In a capitalistic market, if you're willing to pay, nothing is exorbitant. This kind of culture perpetuates capitalistic bruteness in every way. No wonder so many kids in America borrow loan to complete bachelors degree. This is unique to America. I haven't seen that in Asia or Europe. We never pay $40,000/year fee to study a simple bachelors program.
You know, I have had so many discussions about pricing of ebikes on this site that I might have gained a reputation for being cheap but that's ok. That doesn't matter at all.
You ask why is eBike adoption slow in the US.
For eg: Pedego City Commuter 48V retails at $2795 but the dealer cost is $1435 and the true cost to the manufacturer Pedego = $535.
How many middle class people can afford a $2800 bike to commute to work for 7 months in a year? but you know what is true, a lot of people in this country own ridiculous amount of money.
I understand that retailers have to have a job, pay bills, pay the mechanic and make a living. But "high-end" road bikes, "high-end" of anything is driven by elitist nature.
Recently, I was shocked to see a CBS 60 documentary that debunked the market of expensive sunglasses. I do own a Oakley but after seeing this documentary, my thoughts have changed.
Ray Ban, Oakley and all other "high-end" sunglasses are owned by a single company and they simply annihilate any new player.
See this video below and find out for yourself.
thoughts...
I like stealthy ebikes> Turbo
Mid drive vs hub> ? never tried a mid drive yet
Speed >? but I was blown away by a Turbo on Eco compared to my Stromer ST1 on Power while trying to to keep w/him on the W&OD trail...he was younger and and better shape but both 45KPH bikes , I was surprised not that he could but by how much
Local dealer VS Mail order > I will pay extra for a local dealer...had too many issues, are both bikes available locally?
Too expensive not try before buying. 1 bike may just "fit you" better for what ever reason and could be a deal maker..maybe you dont want slicks for tires and ride more gravel /dirt trails (C&O)
just thoughts
BTW I am in Falls Church, live near the W&OD, been riding w/Ravi a few times, when is the get together in DC guys?
Mark
I like stealthy ebikes> Turbo
Mid drive vs hub> ? never tried a mid drive yet
Speed >? but I was blown away by a Turbo on Eco compared to my Stromer ST1 on Power while trying to to keep w/him on the W&OD trail...he was younger and and better shape but both 45KPH bikes , I was surprised not that he could but by how much
Local dealer VS Mail order > I will pay extra for a local dealer...had too many issues, are both bikes available locally?
Too expensive not try before buying. 1 bike may just "fit you" better for what ever reason and could be a deal maker..maybe you dont want slicks for tires and ride more gravel /dirt trails (C&O)
just thoughts
BTW I am in Falls Church, live near the W&OD, been riding w/Ravi a few times, when is the get together in DC guys?
Mark
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