Gazelle Ultimate C380+ vs Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 IGH

[mr_salty]

I'm debating between these two bikes - my LBS has the Gazelle in stock and said Specialized hasn't given them any dates for the Vado - plus it's an extra $750 on top of the unknown wait time. They look really similar, anyone else looking at these and have any thoughts?

• same enviolo hub, which I'm really interested in. I have a regular bike with a N360 and miss having an IGH on my current e-bike.
• unsure how I feel about auto-shift on the Vado - it seems cool, and IIUC it lets you set your desired cadence which sounds awesome.
• slightly more powerful motor (90 vs 85Nm) on the Vado, which isn't a huge deal, but...
• Vado has a much bigger battery (710 vs 500Wh) which is tempting since I hate getting stranded. Although, I could take the extra $750 and buy a second 500Wh battery (and sadly, that's what it costs, plus an extra $200 if you want to run both at once, which I don't think I care about - I could put the 2nd battery in my pannier and swap).
• I'm unclear on the electronics on the Specialized - it looks nicer but it's just the radar that's a Garmin, not the display/control unit right? Does it do any kind of navigation or allow you to upload rides? I recently bought a 530 & Varia that I'm happy with and will probably keep regardless, for my other bikes.

 

[mr_salty]

Minor thing, but I do like how the specialized has separate pannier rails on the rear rack so you can more easily use both panniers and the top of the rack.

Any other bigger differences people are aware of? I know the Vado is 650b vs 700c on the Gazelle but that doesn't matter much to me.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My only comment is: The electronics on the Bosch E-Bike vs. the electronics on a Specialized are like a night and day. Specialized philosophy can be described in one word: "Connectivity". You can connect a Vado to anything with the ANT+ protocol: that would be your 530 and Varia. While Bosch E-Bike idea is: "Let us put everything possible in the hardware".

For instance, Specialized system offers no GPS navigation but you pay no service fees and your Garmin Edge will seamlessly connect to the Vado. Same with a heart-rate monitor. Bosch Nyon (if you buy it as an extra) yes has GPS navigation but reportedly it does not work well in the United States.

A Specialized e-bike connected to a Wahoo ELEMNT Roam. Blue fields are e-bike data, the red field is the HR monitor, and the green fields are general or related to the route plan.

 

[mr_salty]

ah cool, thanks - I didn't consider the possibility of the 530 receiving data from the bike, that's interesting.

ideally i'd be able to ditch the garmin - at least on the ebike I mostly use it to record data about passing cars (My Bike Radar), and occasionally for navigation... but sounds like I'd still need to keep it for those functions... but like I said I'm probably going to keep it for my other bikes anyways.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

ah cool, thanks - I didn't consider the possibility of the 530 receiving data from the bike, that's interesting.

ideally i'd be able to ditch the garmin - at least on the ebike I mostly use it to record data about passing cars (My Bike Radar), and occasionally for navigation... but sounds like I'd still need to keep it for those functions... but like I said I'm probably going to keep it for my other bikes anyways.

As far as I know the latest Vado has the Varia integration in the display. I wouldn't ditch the Garmin. Actually, I ride my older Vado with as many as three devices on long rides: The e-bike display (because I cannot uninstall it): it gives me the speed and the battery level just at a glance; a Wahoo for GPS navigation and detailed ride data, and a smartphone for even more detailed data. Plus a HR monitor.

It is an overkill. For this reason I only use the Wahoo on my lightweight Vado SL - as a universal e-bike/ride data display, and for GPS navigation.

 

[TrevorB]

Depends if you want to ride a bike and look at countryside or look at computer screen which is best done when stationary.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm unclear on the electronics on the Specialized - it looks nicer but it's just the radar that's a Garmin, not the display/control unit right? Does it [...] allow you to upload rides?

Yes it does.

 

[Mulezen]

Serial One is similar to the Vado with IGH and Carbon Fiber belt drive…

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Serial One is similar to the Vado with IGH and Carbon Fiber belt drive…

The problem with Serial 1 is the following:
Similarly to Specialized full power e-bikes, Serial 1 ones are equipped with Brose motors. That does not make these two brands equal. The point is Brose motors have open architecture, where the OEM is responsible for fitting their own battery and the electronics. It can result in two totally different systems. For instance, Serial 1 do not name the electronics used (they could at least mention the display manufacturer).

All I can say is the Specialized electronics is the best out in the market, especially with the new MasterMind electronics.

 

[mr_salty]

Was not aware of the Serial 1, it is almost identical to the Specialized (FWIW they do say "Brose Allround LCD color display" on their web site although nothing about the battery)... but the closest dealer is ~50 miles from me. I really want to buy from somewhere local I can ride to for service, so mail order bikes are also not on my list - I already have an ebike I can't fix myself.

I also heard you can retrofit different displays on the Bosch systems, which is interesting... but, I think I've calmed down a bit and realized it's a big purchase and I should at least look at both bikes before I decide... I just wish I knew how long the wait was going to be (someone said April in the Specialized forum).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

someone said April in the Specialized forum

Not sure about the United States but the first Vado 5.0 IGH will be on the floor in the Warsaw Brand Store on April 21st this year.

 

[mr_salty]

oh lol, "someone" == you so, definitely that's the best case, I will need to be patient...

I also noticed one other difference I missed before which is the gazelle has the trekking hub and the vado has the heavy duty... which is interested since the enviolo docs say only the latter is permitted for speed pedelecs - seems like Gazelle is flouting the requirements?

I also discovered in that doc that I just need the burley hitch adapter ($18) to use my trailer. My other e-bike needed a whole new thru-axle ($50), which they don't even have in 10mm, so that's lucky.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

oh lol, "someone" == you so, definitely that's the best case, I will need to be patient...

I also noticed one other difference I missed before which is the gazelle has the trekking hub and the vado has the heavy duty... which is interested since the enviolo docs say only the latter is permitted for speed pedelecs - seems like Gazelle is flouting the requirements?

I also discovered in that doc that I just need the burley hitch adapter ($18) to use my trailer. My other e-bike needed a whole new thru-axle ($50), which they don't even have in 10mm, so that's lucky.

Mr. Salty: Good to hear from you.
I'm the person least informed on IGHs as I am a deraileur believer
No idea about trailers either as it has never belonged to my needs!

Cheers!

 

[mr_salty]

well, I went to the shop today, took the Gazelle out for a ride, wavered for a while, and ultimately decided to buy it. It's a super nice bike, and ultimately I decided that while the Specialized might be a little nicer, the bigger battery is really the main draw for me, I don't think it will make me regret my purchase (and if it does, well, I'll figure something out...).

The bike shop confirmed you can retrofit the Bosch displays and said they do it a lot (they sell a lot of cargo bikes) - it's about $300 for the Kiox and $400 for the Nyon, they both look pretty nice and could replace my Garmin.

Had a nice ride home; alas despite it being sunny and 15C today, tomorrow it's going to be -6C with a ton of snow.

 

[Mulezen]

You will love it I’m sure. There are threads on the Nyon That will interest you.
Be aware of liking the Gazelle…it will lead inexorably to the dreaded N +1

 

[mr_salty]

thanks... my N is in constant flux although I recently loaned/gave a few bikes to family members so some space freed up

I just watched this whole 1+ hour video on the Nyon and I think I'm pretty sold on it, but will definitely read some other threads...