eBike newbie asks the question: “How far will this thing go on a full charge?”

[Bilbo625]

I realised the hills were getting tougher with every passing year so I bought myself a Cube Touring Hybrid EXC 625 recently. It’s much like a Kathmandu with a Performance Gen 3 drive/65Nm and a 40T crank with12 speed 10/51T derailleur. With this setup I hope to resume touring the Wild Atlantic Way here in Ireland. I’ve done the Beara Peninsula, South Donegal and from Sligo to west Mayo so I have plenty more to explore.

I found this group and read myself into the range debate. With the battery fully charged I set off in Eco mode (with just the occasional blip of Tour to get me up the steeper hills) over a few days. I kept the cadence high at 70-75 average because that’s what Bosch says is best for range. I kept the Range page on all the time. I was not surprised when range reduced as I climbed but I was very surprised at how much range is affected by headwind/tailwind. The Intuvia ran out of range after 159Km(99miles). There was some juice left in the battery because it was still providing some assist but as I was only 2Km from home I switched it off. I have no way of knowing how much was actually left in it. Should I have run the battery to flat?

Assuming 95% efficiency in a new battery I estimate that comes out at about 3.7 Watts/Km or 6 Watts/mile. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m now going to repeat the exercise in Tour mode. If I can get 100km in Tour mode with a light load near home that should translate to 80Km/day with panniers fitted and more hills on tour. That would be a nice daily balance between distance and sightseeing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

3.7 Watts/Km

That is a very economic and impressive figure, and the 625 Wh battery is by no means small. As I have no experience with Bosch based e-bikes in general, and with the Intuvia display in particular, could you tell me:

• Does your display show the battery %?
• What was the average speed on your ride?
• What was the elevation gain for your ride?

I assume your Cube is a 25 km/h e-bike. With cruising speed expected from a Euro e-bike, the air drag on a calm day is not the most range limiting factor. The limiting factors would be rolling resistance, acceleration, headwind, and hills here. I assume you take care about the proper tyre inflation pressure, so we can take take the rolling resistance out of the equation. You probably cover long ride segments at constant speed, so the acceleration factor could be neglected as well. Headwind is something that really kills the battery range; with the elevation gain being the other significant factor.

If you ride into headwind on your trip, expect dramatic drop in the battery range. (That is why I plan my trips with a good weather forecast in advance).
If you are to ride in a hilly area, the total weight of you, your e-bike and of the cargo times the elevation gain will be another range limiting factor. However, riding downhill with no pedalling uses no battery charge, effectively extending your range. (Again, I plan for elevation gain in advance for any of my road mountain trips).

Were I you, I would only switch to the Tour mode in the case of headwind and/or for climbs (you could consider applying the maximum assistance for dramatic climbs). Riding a 25 km/h e-bike on a calm day on the flat would only set you at constant cruising speed of about 25 km/h with easier pedalling but that would mean a terrible waste of the precious battery charge.

As I said before, I have no knowledge of the Intuvia. Bosch based e-bikes don't let you discharge the battery totally (to preserve the battery longevity). If you want to determine the actual range, please ride until your e-bike stops delivering assistance. Still, the battery range is the most unpredictable thing in the e-biking world. Don't let be caught with flat battery on your trip!

Thumbs up!

 

[JRA]

"Correct me if I’m wrong."

Range is calculated in watt hours (wh)/mi or Km not watts.

 

[Bilbo625]

That is a very economic and impressive figure, and the 625 Wh battery is by no means small. As I have no experience with Bosch based e-bikes in general, and with the Intuvia display in particular, could you tell me:

• Does your display show the battery %?
• What was the average speed on your ride?
• What was the elevation gain for your ride?

I assume your Cube is a 25 km/h e-bike. With cruising speed expected from a Euro e-bike, the air drag on a calm day is not the most range limiting factor. The limiting factors would be rolling resistance, acceleration, headwind, and hills here. I assume you take care about the proper tyre inflation pressure, so we can take take the rolling resistance out of the equation. You probably cover long ride segments at constant speed, so the acceleration factor could be neglected as well. Headwind is something that really kills the battery range; with the elevation gain being the other significant factor.

If you ride into headwind on your trip, expect dramatic drop in the battery range. (That is why I plan my trips with a good weather forecast in advance).
If you are to ride in a hilly area, the total weight of you, your e-bike and of the cargo times the elevation gain will be another range limiting factor. However, riding downhill with no pedalling uses no battery charge, effectively extending your range. (Again, I plan for elevation gain in advance for any of my road mountain trips).

Were I you, I would only switch to the Tour mode in the case of headwind and/or for climbs (you could consider applying the maximum assistance for dramatic climbs). Riding a 25 km/h e-bike on a calm day on the flat would only set you at constant cruising speed of about 25 km/h with easier pedalling but that would mean a terrible waste of the precious battery charge.

As I said before, I have no knowledge of the Intuvia. Bosch based e-bikes don't let you discharge the battery totally (to preserve the battery longevity). If you want to determine the actual range, please ride until your e-bike stops delivering assistance. Still, the battery range is the most unpredictable thing in the e-biking world. Don't let be caught with flat battery on your trip!

Thumbs up!

Hi Stefan & JRA,

Thanks for the correction. Henceforth, I will refer only to Wh/Km.

The Intuvia display only gives 5 bars to indicate battery charge. So the actual charge could be anywhere in that 20% segment, assuming that the bars are more or less linear, which might be a big assumption. I take note of distance travelled whenever a bar disappears, usually about 35K/bar in Eco and 22K/Bar in Tour but of course that is dependent wind, slope etc so it’s not precise.

I set tyre pressure at 3.8 Bar, the max is 4.0 Bar. I will raise it to max next time out. I will also ride it until the battery stops producing power as you suggest. Your suggestion of Eco on the flat and Tour for the hills and into wind is more or less what I was doing so I think I will stay with that.

My average speed was 18.6Kph/11.6mph which is quite slow but that’s fine for me.

The elevation gain showing on my Garmin 520+ was 863m/2831’ over the 159Kms. That might not be too accurate as from time to time it shows me cycling below sea level! the elevation here is 9m amsl.

The Cube bikes are limited to 25Kph for EU legal reasons, if I want to go faster it’s going to cost me a lot of effort. In my younger days I used to tour quite happily at 80Km/day. So I am hoping to get back to that level with the eBike.

 

[dodgeman]

I’d say your 80 km on a charge is realistic. I’d say your slower speed helps. The faster you go the more wind resistance you get. I have a Trek with a Powertube 500 battery, smaller than yours. Going into a strong headwind I’ve seen the range on eco of 40 miles. With a strong tailwind I’ve had it show 110 miles.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi Bilbo,

I will raise it to max next time out.

No need to increase pressure. If you ride some rough roads, you might even deflate to the middle of the allowed min-max pressure range; that will significantly soften your rides! In my opinion, there is a little sense in maximizing battery range by heavily inflating your wheels. (We need to trade some range for comfort).

My average speed was 18.6Kph/11.6mph which is quite slow but that’s fine for me.

Such speed is excellent for conserving the battery charge. I achieve similar average speed on my Vado SL on my long trips. Let us do a little comparison, as I have all necessary data for one of my recent rides:

• Average speed (net): 20.4 km/h
• Distance: 116 km
• Elevation gain: 244 m
• Wind: 12.6 km/h. It was a loop ride, so I had headwind on the outward trip leg but tail-wind on the return
• Battery consumption (precisely measured): 436 Wh
• Average battery consumption per distance unit: 3.75 Wh/km.

Of course our e-bikes are different but please notice I had a very similar Wh/km figure as you have estimated for yourself.

The Intuvia display only gives 5 bars to indicate battery charge.

One of my e-bikes (a hub-drive motor one) has only 4 bars on the display. By riding it a lot in my rather flat area, I could eventually come to such conclusions: "If I use PAS 1, I should get 80 km. With PAS 2, that would be 57 km", etc. However, hub motors are very predictable as they work with constant assistance whereas mid motors provide variable assist (mostly depending on our pedalling).

The elevation gain showing on my Garmin 520+ was 863m/2831’ over the 159Kms. That might not be too accurate as from time to time it shows me cycling below sea level! the elevation here is 9m amsl.

You didn't make it on your Cube with a single battery, did you?!

Let me list several similar (but no way identical) rides on my full power Vado 5.0 with a spare battery (all values have been measured):

• 125 km but 1543 m elevation gain; average speed 21.4 km/h, insignificant wind: 981 Wh consumed, 7.85 Wh/km
• 76 km, 1142 m elevation gain, average speed 21.3 km/h, no wind, 664 Wh consumed, 8.73 Wh/km
• 131 km, 740 m elevation gain, avg speed 22.5 km/h, 21 km/h headwind on the outward leg, 1033 Wh, 7.86 Wh/km
• 69 km, 911 m elevation gain, avg speed 20.5 km/h, no wind, 608 Wh, 8.85 Wh/km.

Notice that Wh/km for mountain rides has been more than twice compared to the rides in the flatland!

 

[Bilbo625]

Hi Stefan,

I left the tyre pressure at 3.8Bar.

Yes, the 159km was on one battery charge from fully charged to zero Kms range indicated. However, it was divided into trips on several days and I made a big effort to use as little battery as possible..

I re-charged the battery fully and set off again. This time there was much more wind and I put in a bit more climbing. I used Eco for the flat sections and Tour, Sport and even Turbo for one of the climbs. With a more careful examination of the wind arrows on the forecast I was able to plan the routes to favour a crosswind or a partial headwind and avoid a direct headwind. As usual, I tried to achieve a tailwind for the way home.

So the latest figures are:

125Kms travelled to battery flat.

1056m(3465’) of elevation gain on Garmin. The same routes on Ride with GPS gave an elevation gain of 919m(3015’).

Assuming 95% efficiency that works out at about 4.8Wh/Km or 7.6Wh/Mile.

I’m really happy with these figures as I can easily plan my Tour ’22 and not be too concerned with running out of battery. My next step is to load up the panniers for a two day trip to pull it all together. Thanks to all here for your comments and support.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It only tells me Bilbo your own leg power input is really solid! 4.8 Wh/km for such a trip is a highly commendable figure!

 

[fooferdoggie]

the few times my battery has cut out it was 1 to 2 miles after I hit zero.

 

[PSm]

Hi Stefan,

I left the tyre pressure at 3.8Bar.

Yes, the 159km was on one battery charge from fully charged to zero Kms range indicated. However, it was divided into trips on several days and I made a big effort to use as little battery as possible..

I re-charged the battery fully and set off again. This time there was much more wind and I put in a bit more climbing. I used Eco for the flat sections and Tour, Sport and even Turbo for one of the climbs. With a more careful examination of the wind arrows on the forecast I was able to plan the routes to favour a crosswind or a partial headwind and avoid a direct headwind. As usual, I tried to achieve a tailwind for the way home.

So the latest figures are:

125Kms travelled to battery flat.

1056m(3465’) of elevation gain on Garmin. The same routes on Ride with GPS gave an elevation gain of 919m(3015’).

Assuming 95% efficiency that works out at about 4.8Wh/Km or 7.6Wh/Mile.

I’m really happy with these figures as I can easily plan my Tour ’22 and not be too concerned with running out of battery. My next step is to load up the panniers for a two day trip to pull it all together. Thanks to all here for your comments and support.

Very interesting thread and data. Have other e-bikes, but after getting the Ride1UP roadster v2 single speed belt drive, been spending the past year or so hypermiling (low RR tires, high pressure, truing wheels, aero position, improving fitness and fueling/hydration, motor off as much as possible, etc) to try to get the most range. Added the external battery, so have 500 wh total (250wh internal + 250wh external on tap).

Strava results from 500wh (5 bars) to essentially 0 bars, except for first one:

Analog non e-bike:
56km
2200'/700m elevation gain
21.7 km/hr
0 wh/km

Ride1UP Roadster v2 single-speed:
150km
7000'/2100m
23.8 km/hr
3.3 wh/km
Pedal Assist Level 1 (out of 5) or OFF as much as possible

120km
7900'/2400m
18.8 km/h
4.0 wh/km
PAS 1 (out of 5) or off

90km
6000'/1900m
22.0 km/hr
5.4 wh/km
PAS 1-2 (out of 5) or off

40km max effort, max assist, speed run
4400'/1300m
31.2 km/hr
12.5 wh/km
PAS 5 (out of 5) for climbs, or PAS1/off downhill

But this was all on decent roads, and nothing off road. If good roads, the Continental Grand Prix 5000 tires are awesome and low rolling resistance, but only go up to 32mm width.

If you have rough roads and need tougher tires, that's an entirely different story, and even more impressive.

Keep biking!

 

[Bilbo625]

Here’s an update of my ebike experience so far with many thanks to all who answered my earlier posts. I’m delighted with my Cube Touring Hybrid 625. I passed the 1st year on my ebike in late September for 5200Km (3231mls) plus another 800Km (500mls) on my other bikes.

Once I realised how much range I had in the 625Wh battery I started to experiment with comfort/range/speed. After each ride I recharge up to 80% approx. If I need more for a long ride I top it up on the morning. I lowered the tyre pressure to 3Bar for comfort. It’s not too hilly where I live so I use 8th gear (of 11) as my ‘Home’ gear (I marked it on the indicator with a tiny paint mark). I rarely use +/-3 gears from that setting. Using ‘Tour’ level of assist I get about 110km from the full charge, cruising at 22-24kph although I do use the odd ‘Sport’ boost for a steep section or traffic if required.

In retrospect I should have opted for a ‘step-through’ frame as it’s getting more difficult to throw the leg over the bar at 76yrs of age. My great plans for a long tour got lost somewhere in my busy life but I get out 4/5 times a week for regular spins. So once again many thanks to all the folks on here for helping me get from Newbie to Old Hand.