Current hub motor vs mid drive status?

[BrianK]

Hi Court,
I’m sold on mid drives, and will be buying one this spring.

I had a front drive hub motor kit on an elliptical e-trike I built and was not satisfied with a hub motor.

Are they still a decent alternative compared to a mid drive? (I guess if a rider faced no threat of serious hill climbing they’d be ok?)

Can you do a quick run down on the current status of hub motor vs mid drive motor technologies and pros/cons?

Do you think eventually most ebikes will be mid drive?

Thanks,
Brian

My previous Zike elliptical e-trike build was explained here:

Zike elliptical e-trike

Hi folks, I used to mountain bike following a heart attack at 42 (bad genes, worse lifestyle) and triple bypass about ten years ago, and got up to doing 20 miles rides on local rails to trails. Unfortunately I ended up with chronic tendinitis (and probably longitudinal tears) in the peroneal...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Admin]

Interesting question there @BrianK, I do not think that we will see hub motors vanish completely. They are affordable, work great with throttles, and provide a different experience than mid-drives, sometimes better! In my opinion, front hub motors are the worst, and only really shine for delta trikes (one wheel in the front, two wheels in the back). Front wheel drive is great for automobiles, since they are heavy and have the engine up front in many cases, but for bicycles, most weight is shifted towards the rear and the front wheel can spin out easily. If we look at the types of hub motors, I see gearless is being phased out due to weight and the limited benefit of regenerative braking (where the weight and cogging drag during coasting is maybe or only partially offset by regen... and regen adds complexity and more failure points. Planetary geared hub motors are the big winner, especially when rear mounted. I see Bosch introducing a wide range of mid-motors at different price points, and feel like they nerfed the Active Line, but Active Line Plus is acceptible. They've got competition from the Shimano E6100 and Yamaha PW, but Bosch is still the big leader in terms of shift sensing, dealer support, displays, and chargers. Brose is great too, so it's nice to see competition in the space, moving us towards more mid-drive options. So why not have all ebikes be mid-drive? Well, they don't work great with throttles, and most big name motor manufacturers don't use throttles at all because they're extending their European business, going for economies of scale. No throttles in Europe, period. Bafang is the one big outlier, because they have many mid-motors and do allow for throttles. They even offer physical shift detection switches! It's fun and capable, but their motors are basically illegal in some cases, offering more power and speed than the laws permit. They may also break chains, chainrings, and bend sprocket teeth. I don't do a lot with Bafang... but I'm excited to see companies like EVELO and DOST using them.

 

[BrianK]

Thanks @Court! I’m going to pick up a Dost as soon as they go live, and I’ve been exchanging emails with Sam.

I’m a podiatrist, and I told him I think his design parameters would make for a great ebike for older, diabetic or other debilitated people who could benefit from “powered cycling,” which studies prove that even if used on Turbo assist full time, is a better work out for them than moderate walking.

For that market, it needs to be as simple and easy to ride as possible, a “PhD” bike.

As in,

“Push here, Dummy!”

This demographic aren’t tinkerers, they need a 100% reliable ebike right out of the box

Ebikes have hit “the knee of the curve.” The technology has matured to the point they can be marketed to a wider demographic than they were traditionally, and I think sales will explode (relative to acoustic bikes) over the next several years.

I visited my LBS today as they said they sold about 30 ebikes in 2018, but almost 100 so far this year.

 

[e-boy]

Interesting question there @BrianK, I do not think that we will see hub motors vanish completely. They are affordable, work great with throttles, and provide a different experience than mid-drives, sometimes better! In my opinion, front hub motors are the worst, and only really shine for delta trikes (one wheel in the front, two wheels in the back). Front wheel drive is great for automobiles, since they are heavy and have the engine up front in many cases, but for bicycles, most weight is shifted towards the rear and the front wheel can spin out easily. If we look at the types of hub motors, I see gearless is being phased out due to weight and the limited benefit of regenerative braking (where the weight and cogging drag during coasting is maybe or only partially offset by regen... and regen adds complexity and more failure points. Planetary geared hub motors are the big winner, especially when rear mounted. I see Bosch introducing a wide range of mid-motors at different price points, and feel like they nerfed the Active Line, but Active Line Plus is acceptible. They've got competition from the Shimano E6100 and Yamaha PW, but Bosch is still the big leader in terms of shift sensing, dealer support, displays, and chargers. Brose is great too, so it's nice to see competition in the space, moving us towards more mid-drive options. So why not have all ebikes be mid-drive? Well, they don't work great with throttles, and most big name motor manufacturers don't use throttles at all because they're extending their European business, going for economies of scale. No throttles in Europe, period. Bafang is the one big outlier, because they have many mid-motors and do allow for throttles. They even offer physical shift detection switches! It's fun and capable, but their motors are basically illegal in some cases, offering more power and speed than the laws permit. They may also break chains, chainrings, and bend sprocket teeth. I don't do a lot with Bafang... but I'm excited to see companies like EVELO and DOST using them.

What are some of the entry , mid , and high end eBike brands and/or particular models to look at that are using planetary geared hubs ?