CrossCurrent S - New Model

Hey I just wanted to chime in. I walked into Electric Bike Center in Fullerton Ca this weekend (Saturday Sept 3rd.) and picked up a black CCS. I got lucky Sam had them. Honestly I was in the fence about it until I got on the bike and test rode it.... ( I also rode 4 other bikes ). Sam who helped me and is awesome said that Tora delivered 3 bikes to him last week and I was the first one he sold. The only thing was the front And rear lights were missing.

That night I submitted a claim on the juiced website and literally 5 min later I got a response (I assume from Tora I hear he never sleeps...) that the lights would be send out. minutes later and invoice... Bam great customer service.

I rode about 10 miles today so far so good.... great feel power and smooth.

As a guy who tried to start a small business and failed....Tora has stopped his life to push a big boulder up a hill with lots of crap in his way. Cut the guy some slack. He clearly loves what he is making and is passionate. The end of the day the market place will decide. I for one am rooting for him because I got an AMAZING bike at and incredible price/value.

Btw I am going to commute to work a few days a week and I have neck shoulder issues and Sam put on an adjustable stem for me....which is why I stopped riding my road bike. :)

And I got a Large fame .... at 5'9" it fits nice. Sam did have a medium and a silver btw... hit him up!
 

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@ROCebike That is more information for those who are expecting a size medium black in this batch. There are 4 sizes currently available. 22" is in the next batch. Not one m st made in black, despite being one of the first orders placed. So that 15 combinations is down to 11. The m black aren't available to those who ordered BEFORE the cross current s was announced. People who have been asking for a black cross current 2017. This is not an isolated incident, it is a pattern.

From facebook comments: "I called sales right after I ordered our two CCS just after the first of the month. I wanted to make sure the frame sizes and colors we ordered were available. I was told at that time only 50 some of the 280 or so shipment had sold, so there would be no problem. I hope they're shipping in the order pre-sales were made."

"I just got a note that my pre-ordered bike won't be available in black
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:(. Anyone else had this happen? I do sort of care about it. They offered a red or Al - anyone want to swap a stock M with me who ordered a black? Normally the Al costs 99 more. On something so expensive I'd really like to get the color I ordered, and ordered it early enough/and stock that I really should have gotten that.. thanks! Looking forward to this bike so much..."

"I ordered my bike in May, back before the CrossCurrent had an "S". My bike was supposed to be delivered in July. I was given no notice about the changes to my order and delivery time, I found the information myself on the Juiced website. At that point I had to contact them 7 times, over the course of two weeks, before they got back to me. I was told then that I would have my bike August 10. I currently have an email in to the support desk, still waiting for a reply. Communication is a BIG problem here. This company spends far too much time hype products for future sales, taking away from their ability to take care of their existing responsibilities."

This is not a isolated "you're two days late, where's my bike?," situation. It is purely questioning communication because it is there is a lack of consumer confidence right now. Three different incidents where either the bike wasn't produced, inventory wasn't communicated until too late (a repeat incident for the same customer,), or bike was told it was shipped when it wasn't. I'm not calling them liars, but there is more information for prospective people to consider. It would if we both great if worked together to compile a timeline of Juiced responses for the Hyperfat. Maybe we can reconsider making a new thread to separate bike reviews/info from juiced business reviews/info.
 
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I am very impressed with the Crosscurrent S capability. However, a hub motor has an inherent weakness of poor heat dissipation since it is an out runner design with the heat generated at the center. The right side has the cassette that doubles as a heat sink (but less effective since heat has to pass through the bearing) but the left side is just a bolt that connects to the bike frame with even less heat dissipating capacity. The only ebike I see that addressed heat dissipation at left side is the Bulls outlaw E45. I wish Tora can come up with a similar heat sink since the cross current S is more powerfull and can generate more heat especially on steep hill climbs. Probably then, I will be more compelled to purchase one over the Bulls Outlaw E45.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
heat sink.jpg

Quote from the website:
" The more powerful the rear-wheel drive, the less load is felt at the chain ring, chain, and cassette. ... ... To achieve this, the “ventilation fin” (or cooling fin) controls the temperature of the motor without itself getting too hot to further ensure that drive unit provides a high level of performance."
 
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I am very impressed with the Crosscurrent S capability. However, a hub motor has an inherent weakness on dissipating heat since it is an out runner design with the heat generated at the center. The right side has the cassette that doubles as a heat sink (but less effective since heat has to pass through the bearing) but the left side is just a bolt that connects to the bike frame with even less heat dissipating capacity. The only ebike I see that addressed heat dissipation at left side is the Bulls outlaw E45. I wish Tora can come up with a similar heat sink since the cross current S is more powerfull and can generate more heat especially on steep hill climbs. Probably then, I will be more compelled to purchase one over the Bulls Outlaw E45.
View attachment 18163

I was under the impression that the hub has a temp sensor and the controller can dial back the amperage to keep it from overheating. Maybe I'm wrong?
 
I was under the impression that the hub has a temp sensor and the controller can dial back the amperage to keep it from overheating. Maybe I'm wrong?
Yes it has temperature sensor but the heat dissipation would not be as effective as that the 500 watt Bulls Outlaw E45. If you are on a sustained steep climb, the outlaw can tolerate and maintain higher output while other hub motors without the heat sink has to dial down the power or it can overheat and melt the plastic gears and wiring.
 
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I am very impressed with the Crosscurrent S capability. However, a hub motor has an inherent weakness of poor heat dissipation since it is an out runner design with the heat generated at the center. The right side has the cassette that doubles as a heat sink (but less effective since heat has to pass through the bearing) but the left side is just a bolt that connects to the bike frame with even less heat dissipating capacity. The only ebike I see that addressed heat dissipation at left side is the Bulls outlaw E45. I wish Tora can come up with a similar heat sink since the cross current S is more powerfull and can generate more heat especially on steep hill climbs. Probably then, I will be more compelled to purchase one over the Bulls Outlaw E45.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
View attachment 18163
Quote from the website:
" The more powerful the rear-wheel drive, the less load is felt at the chain ring, chain, and cassette. ... ... To achieve this, the “ventilation fin” (or cooling fin) controls the temperature of the motor without itself getting too hot to further ensure that drive unit provides a high level of performance."

Is this really an issue? I don't hear about hub motors (and there are a s*it ton of them out there) failing because of poor heat dissipation.
 
About ready to cancel. I keep getting assurances it's about to ship but get jerked around by the reps at Juiced. I am not impressed.

If all they have is "we're the cheapest with this capability on the market" I suspect they'll quickly find a lot of people with $2K to spend on an ebike have $3K to spend on a ebike - and if they compete 100% on price - well, that's a market I'd prefer not to service.
 
Mark, if you are climbing lots of hills then go for the Bulls Outlaw E45. Gotta figure out what is important to you. :)
 
Is this really an issue? I don't hear about hub motors (and there are a s*it ton of them out there) failing because of poor heat dissipation.
I saw one before but this one is way over stressed.
Quote...
" Mike,
Define 'reliable'.
If you mindlessly flog you bike with a mid drive (or a geared hub motor) up steep hills at full power for a prolonged time, the motor will get hot and the Nylon gears eventually fail.

I've experianced 'melted planetary gears' in my Bafang geared hub motors, but was running them at four to six times of their rated power. All in the name of science, of course!
biggrin.gif

For instance, here is the result of running a '250W' Bafang SWXH for too long at 1200W with a 35A controller and 48V batterie:

bafang-swxh-defect-gears1.jpg


It that case, it would be kind of stupid to blame Bafang. The motor did fine with a 17A controller and 36-48V batterie for more than 6,000km, but 'suddenly' (out of the blue I might say) decided to fail after abusing it for nearly 1,500km with a 35A controller.
wink.gif


When I was 'stress testing' my new Bafang BPM, it did fine with a 54V batterie and 45A controller for 3,500km (thats about 2,5kW peak power). When 'testing' a 72V batterie (at about 3.5kW peak), the planetary gears started to desintegrate after only 5km. Surly, thats a gross quality problem Bafang has to fix in their '500W' motors!
biggrin.gif
" end quote.
Source: https://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=134229
 
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so i'm curious what is your point... that if you stress a motor beyond its limits and design it will fail? is the argument that a heat sink will fix this? Maybe as bikes becomes more robust maybe but i'm guessing that engineering will make a bike heavier and more awkward? right?

do you want a bike that will carry you up the Rockies? or just to help up a hill on the way to work?

A
 
so i'm curious what is your point... that if you stress a motor beyond its limits and design it will fail? is the argument that a heat sink will fix this? Maybe as bikes becomes more robust maybe but i'm guessing that engineering will make a bike heavier and more awkward? right?

do you want a bike that will carry you up the Rockies? or just to help up a hill on the way to work?

A
Actually, It will not be too difficult to put a heat sink, besides, it can also function as a robust torque arm.
heat sink.jpg
A widened torque arm with fins that helps dissipate heat. It's just a suggestion.
 
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i guess my questions is as well.. is how long is my 2k investment going to last... and if something like this makes it last longer than i guess its a good idea. Since its so new there probably aren't any really long term stress tests on these systems.

I guess in hopefully more than 5 years I have to do a battery or motor replacement but we'll see....
 
Actually, It will not be too difficult to put a heat sink, besides, it can also function as a robust torque arm.

The Cross Current already has torque arm on the non-drive side that is bolted to the dropout. I think the point on the geared hub motors is that the nylon reduction gears are the weak point. The failure point is probably the gears stripping from too much torque and not too much heat. Most hub motors can easily handle double their rated power. The standard Cross Current ran 600-700W through a 350W nominal motor. The Cross Current S is running a 650W motor at ~950 watts so it’s unlikely to ever get too hot from that much power. Also realize that these motors are about $100 retail so you’re looking at ~$300 worst case to replace the rear wheel (that’s if Juiced Bikes doesn’t give you a discount.) Compared that to what it costs to replace a mid-drive out of warranty.
 
The Cross Current already has torque arm on the non-drive side that is bolted to the dropout.
That is the idea. Since heat from the motor escapes through the stationary shafts on both sides and through the torque arm. Why not utilize the torque arm as a heat sink? All you need to do is expand it and put some fins to maximize the heat dissipating surface area. That's all.

Similar to 10:05 mark of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=605&v=hrz5i8O4GiE
 
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I want to buy a Cross Current S from my local dealer in Vancouver and came here to read about the bike. Instead I got some insights as to what people think about the customer service.

My only experience is that I emailed Juiced today about when distribution in Canada would start and I received an email reply in 18 minutes. That's amazingly responsive.
 
I just got my CrossCurrent S (order #1900) with the 17.4 Ah battery. Bike looks nice and barely required any assembly - just attaching battery, installing front quick release, and attaching front tire to the bike. Couple issues that maybe others have some experience with:
  1. My front disk brake is rubbing against the rotor. I have never had a disk brake bike before so I have no idea how to fix. I just installed the quick release lever like I would normally and the rotor fell into place between two pads.
  2. I have no idea how to install the rear light and the front fender and Juiced hasn't posted instructions for these things yet.
  3. There was no front light in the box that I received. Support's answer to this was:

    The 1,050 lum LED lights are custom made and unfortunately this time arrived just after the bikes were shipped. We did however recently get them and will send them soon to all the bikes that were effected by the delay. About 40 bikes got this delay.
I'll probably go to my LBS tomorrow to try to resolve #1/#2. Props to Juiced for the quick reply on #3.

Obligatory new bike picture:
ZBuNa0x.jpg
 
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