interesting new garmin radar data

[mschwett]

many here know that i consider the varia a must-have accessory for any cyclist, far more important than any other safety measure except the helmet. it is the only active safety measure available, changing it's very bright rear facing blinking light pattern in response to approaching cars. nothing gets a driver's attention like a light going from bright and solid to bright and blinking, assuming they're actually looking at the road.

i turned my one mile commute into a twenty mile commute today because it was a really nice day, and noticed this new data available after the ride. i love it when apps add features, no work required of the user, no cost!

the average car passed me at a relative 9.1mph on this ride, and they slowed down by 3.5mph to do so. not much, but also not a fast pass. the average car speed of 24.8mph seems a bit fast given that the speed limit is most always 20 or 25 in the city, but there were a few sections where cars can go a bit faster, and they might be the more heavily trafficked ones. all the fast passes occured on one bit of road, just before the midpoint of the ride. one could imagine using this data to improve ride safety by avoiding those roads, although this particular one has a bike lane and very little cross traffic. seems safe and i've ridden it hundreds of times. a few of the small circles are actually other cyclists and the one that passed me going 18 mph faster than i was (left axis is relative pass speed afaik) was an a-hole on a throttled ebike/moped in the bike lane on about a 8% uphill grade. i was probably going 6, he was apparently going 25, per the varia! there's also a map view available which shows where each pass occured.

for reference, here's the route.

 

[6zfshdb]

The Varia is definitely a useful safety device for on road riding. I considered getting one for trail use, but reviewers say an oncoming cyclist won't trigger an alert. Has there been any improvement in sensitivity with the new app & firmware?

I'm not a speeder, I like to enjoy the scenery where I ride. I usually ride between 10 & 12MPH and am frequently passed by other e-bikes, as well as spandexers on conventional models. I have a helmet mirror but I get distracted and sometimes don't notice an approaching cyclist. The Varia would be helpful for me in situations like this if it were reliable.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the varia a must-have accessory for any cyclist

Please forgive me for being bitter The Varia is a must-have accessory only if:

• The country is a motor-country with little to no bike infrastructure and aggressive drivers who want to kill cyclists...
• The rider has their ears plugged with earphones...

In my riding, I can hear the vehicles approaching from the rear, and I can see them in the rear-view mirror. Polish drivers are mostly respectful, and many of them are cyclists themselves. I personally listen to the ambient.

The knowledge how many cars approach me from the rear is useless for me, especially as a killer-driver will kill me, Varia or not

 

[juggernaut]

The Varia is definitely a useful safety device for on road riding. I considered getting one for trail use, but reviewers say an oncoming cyclist won't trigger an alert. Has there been any improvement in sensitivity with the new app & firmware?

I'm not a speeder, I like to enjoy the scenery where I ride. I usually ride between 10 & 12MPH and am frequently passed by other e-bikes, as well as spandexers on conventional models. I have a helmet mirror but I get distracted and sometimes don't notice an approaching cyclist. The Varia would be helpful for me in situations like this if it were reliable.

In my experience rear approaching cyclists and scooters trigger an alert providing there is a certain speed differential to your cycling speed. I’m not sure what the min speed differential needs to be but have noticed if I’m coasting down a hill and a cyclist is pedalling down the hill it has triggered an alert.

 

[sc00ter]

I just stay aware of whats behind me with me mirrors, and stay aware of whats around me as well. Drivers in my area are so aggressive and dumb the alerts would be going off all the time. Instead of collecting data (is kinda neat though) I'd rather have a GoPro style camera(s) mounted on the ebike and hope the police find it should I get hit. Real time video is much more useful than data in court should I need it. I still need to activate my DJI I purchased for my motor scooter.

 

[indianajo]

My varia RTL510 is a piece of ****. Warns me about trucks on the interstate 500' to the side through the chain link fence. Warns me of cars 3 lanes to the left of the sidewalk I am on. Warns me of lawnmowers in yards to the side. Warns me of cars approaching a 4 way stop sign from 90 degrees of my street, that I passed 3 blocks ago. Warns me of combines in fields about 10 acres away. Wolf! WOLF! WOLF!!!!
I put the indicator in storage and use the radar as a taillight. It is a pretty reliable taillight. ONLY
Per Scooter's post, I am thinking of buying a Cycliq Gen6 recorder.

 

[Calcoaster]

many here know that i consider the varia a must-have accessory for any cyclist, far more important than any other safety measure except the helmet. it is the only active safety measure available, changing it's very bright rear facing blinking light pattern in response to approaching cars. nothing gets a driver's attention like a light going from bright and solid to bright and blinking, assuming they're actually looking at the road.

i turned my one mile commute into a twenty mile commute today because it was a really nice day, and noticed this new data available after the ride. i love it when apps add features, no work required of the user, no cost!

the average car passed me at a relative 9.1mph on this ride, and they slowed down by 3.5mph to do so. not much, but also not a fast pass. the average car speed of 24.8mph seems a bit fast given that the speed limit is most always 20 or 25 in the city, but there were a few sections where cars can go a bit faster, and they might be the more heavily trafficked ones. all the fast passes occured on one bit of road, just before the midpoint of the ride. one could imagine using this data to improve ride safety by avoiding those roads, although this particular one has a bike lane and very little cross traffic. seems safe and i've ridden it hundreds of times. a few of the small circles are actually other cyclists and the one that passed me going 18 mph faster than i was (left axis is relative pass speed afaik) was an a-hole on a throttled ebike/moped in the bike lane on about a 8% uphill grade. i was probably going 6, he was apparently going 25, per the varia! there's also a map view available which shows where each pass occured.

View attachment 182900

for reference, here's the route.

View attachment 182901

I agree that my Varia is my most important accessory. I get a few false alarms from traffic on side streets etc, but it almost never misses a car that’s really there. Where did you find all that data?

 

[juggernaut]

My varia RTL510 is a piece of ****. Warns me about trucks on the interstate 500' to the side through the chain link fence. Warns me of cars 3 lanes to the left of the sidewalk I am on. Warns me of lawnmowers in yards to the side. Warns me of cars approaching a 4 way stop sign from 90 degrees of my street, that I passed 3 blocks ago. Warns me of combines in fields about 10 acres away. Wolf! WOLF! WOLF!!!!
I put the indicator in storage and use the radar as a taillight. It is a pretty reliable taillight. ONLY
Per Scooter's post, I am thinking of buying a Cycliq Gen6 recorder.

Sounds like you were the beta tester for the old model varia

 

[fooferdoggie]

mine does go off a bit more then it should. like when not moving or way off to the side. The bonjager one is supposed to be much better about that. but actually sees farther back and even more to the side.

 

[mschwett]

I agree that my Varia is my most important accessory. I get a few false alarms from traffic on side streets etc, but it almost never misses a car that’s really there. Where did you find all that data?

it's a new feature added to the cycling app i use! ( https://getcadence.app/ )

great app for those who ride with a phone on their bars.

 

[mschwett]

Please forgive me for being bitter The Varia is a must-have accessory only if:

• The country is a motor-country with little to no bike infrastructure and aggressive drivers who want to kill cyclists...
• The rider has their ears plugged with earphones...

In my riding, I can hear the vehicles approaching from the rear, and I can see them in the rear-view mirror. Polish drivers are mostly respectful, and many of them are cyclists themselves. I personally listen to the ambient.

The knowledge how many cars approach me from the rear is useless for me, especially as a killer-driver will kill me, Varia or not

not bitter. just uninformed

 

[Stefan Mikes]

not bitter. just uninformed

The only two accidents from the recent Great Lakes Gravel race (around 600 riders, part of the race leading through populated areas):

• A rider hit by a car backing off from a private property onto the public road
• A rider making a "too spirited" turn, and hitting his face against a roadside barrier.

A potentially very dangerous place: A straight downhill forest fire road crossing the main road the way the rider would not be even aware there was the crossing at that point. The place got clearly marked by the organizers, and a firefighter crew was also guarding that point, also at night.

I wonder how Varia could have prevented the accidents I described, or protected the riders on the dangerous junction.

Garmin Varia is another gadget for technocrats, making the users careless and complacent. The only practical function is making the left (or right in some countries) turn safer. It does not think for the user or makes the ride any safer than a regular rear-view mirror and a little common sense would do.

 

[mschwett]

The only two accidents from the recent Great Lakes Gravel race (around 600 riders, part of the race leading through populated areas):

• A rider hit by a car backing off from a private property onto the public road
• A rider making a "too spirited" turn, and hitting his face against a roadside barrier.

A potentially very dangerous place: A straight downhill forest fire road crossing the main road the way the rider would not be even aware there was the crossing at that point. The place got clearly marked by the organizers, and a firefighter crew was also guarding that point, also at night.

I wonder how Varia could have prevented the accidents I described, or protected the riders on the dangerous junction.

Garmin Varia is another gadget for technocrats, making the users careless and complacent. The only practical function is making the left (or right in some countries) turn safer. It does not think for the user or makes the ride any safer than a regular rear-view mirror and a little common sense would do.

hundreds of thousands - and probably millions of far more skilled and experienced riders disagree with your intellectually sloppy categorization. that a safety aid doesn’t help with ALL situations does not mean it doesn’t help with SOME. helmets don’t protect you from breaking a leg when you fall, so i suggest you a) stop wearing one and b) tell everyone else not to wear one also. this advice would be even more comparable to yours if i had little to no experience wearing a helmet myself, and was commenting on the cycling conditions in a far away place i clearly knew next to nothing about.

 

[Calcoaster]

The only two accidents from the recent Great Lakes Gravel race (around 600 riders, part of the race leading through populated areas):

• A rider hit by a car backing off from a private property onto the public road
• A rider making a "too spirited" turn, and hitting his face against a roadside barrier.

A potentially very dangerous place: A straight downhill forest fire road crossing the main road the way the rider would not be even aware there was the crossing at that point. The place got clearly marked by the organizers, and a firefighter crew was also guarding that point, also at night.

I wonder how Varia could have prevented the accidents I described, or protected the riders on the dangerous junction.

Garmin Varia is another gadget for technocrats, making the users careless and complacent. The only practical function is making the left (or right in some countries) turn safer. It does not think for the user or makes the ride any safer than a regular rear-view mirror and a little common sense would do.

Your three examples are meaningless - the Varia is not intended to protect you from cross traffic when blasting through an intersection or from hitting a roadside barrier with your face. If you ride on gravel roads without traffic you don’t need one. I find it to be a critical aid riding on country roads with light traffic. I check my radar regularly to keep track of approaching cars. Before turning or passing I check my Varia, then my mirror, then a quick look over my shoulder. After three years of depending on it, I won’t ride without it. It makes my rides much safer.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

hundreds of thousands - and probably millions of far more skilled and experienced riders disagree with your intellectually sloppy categorization.

Your statement:

the varia a must-have accessory for any cyclist,

was a generalization. If you added: "in traffic of North America" then your statement would be a way more palatable. Varia is certainly an unnecessary gadget on a technical singletrack, and it is a waste in Europe Any cyclist? Really?

and was commenting on the cycling conditions in a far away place i clearly knew next to nothing about.

Vice versa.

I realize this picture is irrelevant to the United States.

 

[mschwett]

Your statement:

was a generalization. If you added: "in traffic of North America" then your statement would be a way more palatable. Varia is certainly an unnecessary gadget on a technical singletrack, and it is a waste in Europe Any cyclist? Really?


Vice versa.

View attachment 182970
I realize this picture is irrelevant to the United States.

i will amend - any cyclist who ever rides their bicycle on a surface shared with vehicles. because someone may ride on a velodrome, or singletrack, does not mean those users don’t ride on roads. i have known cyclists my entire life, have lived my entire life in one of the world’s cycling meccas (despite your insinuation about “little to no bike infrastructure”), and even the most flow trail obsessed MTB addicts i know ride bikes on roads fairly often. of course they don’t all use the varia, but everyone spends some time on roads and the more time one does, the more useful it is.

as for your irrelevant photo, there are hundreds of thousands of miles of fully separated bicycle or multi-use trails in the united states, from rail trails to shared paths and grade separated bikeways. there is absolutely much work to be done, more so in some places than others.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

hundreds of thousands - and probably millions of far more skilled and experienced riders

Millions of riders worldwide just use the rear-view mirror or look behind their shoulder or even stop before making the left turn. On the other hand, so many cyclists even do not wear any helmet!
Do you have any hard data about the number of Garmin Varia sold worldwide? With the split between the world regions?

Having a Garmin Varia may help Americans with their irresponsible drivers and the car culture* but it is not "a must-have for any cyclist". Whenever I was single-handedly declaring a bike component as "the best", I was getting angry American reactions who were teaching me there was no "best product". I think it should apply to everyone including you. No, Garmin Varia is not "a must-have for any cyclist". It is a "must-have" for yourself.
----------
*) Have a look how Germany, a Motor Country, is different to the U.S. Millions of Germans safely cycle without any Varia while many German motorways even have no speed limits.

Copenhagen, Denmark.

the varia a must-have accessory for any cyclist

 

[mschwett]

Millions of riders worldwide just use the rear-view mirror or look behind their shoulder or even stop before making the left turn. On the other hand, so many cyclists even do not wear any helmet!
Do you have any hard data about the number of Garmin Varia sold worldwide? With the split between the world regions?

Having a Garmin Varia may help Americans with their irresponsible drivers and the car culture* but it is not "a must-have for any cyclist". Whenever I was single-handedly declaring a bike component as "the best", I was getting angry American reactions who were teaching me there was no "best product". I think it should apply to everyone including you. No, Garmin Varia is not "a must-have for any cyclist". It is a "must-have" for yourself.
----------
*) Have a look how Germany, a Motor Country, is different to the U.S. Millions of Germans safely cycle without any Varia while many German motorways even have no speed limits.

the effective use of the varia has nothing to do with turns across traffic. it has to do with alerting drivers approaching from the rear to your presence and alerting you to their presence without requiring you to take your eyes off the road ahead. a mirror cannot do either of these things unless it is placed in front of your eye. electric vehicles are extremely quiet (the best selling car in california is a tesla), it is often very windy in coastal regions and sound does not travel well against the wind. some of our most epic routes are frequently socked in by dense coastal fog in mornings and afternoons, but radar sees through fog where eyes cannot. it also can be exceedingly difficult to see vehicles behind other vehicles without watching for a long time or around a curve, and in passing the second vehicle passing is the most dangerous one. the radar shows both vehicles as separate icons, or for those who don’t want to look at the display (which, again, is in the forward field of vision, not down and to the side), the audible tone after the first vehicle passes is different if there are no more vehicles coming.

i do not believe the varia is stvzo compliant so i would not expect it to be even sold in germany. it sells well in the UK, at least judging by 1,000 4.8* amazon UK reviews, even though that country is a much safer place to ride than most of the united states.

if i lived in a less cyclist-friendly part of the united states, i would simply not ride on the roads at all, varia or not. my initial statement about the varia being a must-have was a figure of speech, a bit of harmless hyperbole, and clearly prefaced that it was my own opinion (“i consider”) and, unlike your subsequent insults about “careless technocrats,” derogatory to no one. and that is why you will now join my short list of blocked users. cheers!

 

[BlackHand]

DCRainmaker's take on Varia:

"Now, first, a quick two-second primer on the Varia radar series. In general, there’s two trains of thought to people with the Varia radar:

A) People that have tried it and love it
B) Everyone else

Seriously, it’s the *only* product I’ve ever reviewed here that everyone who has bought one loves. No joke – go look at the comments section of either review. It’s nuts. No…really…go!

The people who think the radar is stupid are the ones that haven’t ever used it."

 

[mschwett]

DCRainmaker's take on Varia:

"Now, first, a quick two-second primer on the Varia radar series. In general, there’s two trains of thought to people with the Varia radar:

A) People that have tried it and love it
B) Everyone else

Seriously, it’s the *only* product I’ve ever reviewed here that everyone who has bought one loves. No joke – go look at the comments section of either review. It’s nuts. No…really…go!

The people who think the radar is stupid are the ones that haven’t ever used it."

yes … this coming from a man who lives, wait for it, IN THE NETHERLANDS!