XPremium Q's

[GaryInCO]

Some questions for XPremium pilots:

• Does anybody use a suspension post on the XPremium seat? Or is it pointless, since the 4" fatties already soak up most of the bumps?
  
  
• I've heard the power bar is really inaccurate. I think I remember seeing a table that maps Voltage to actual expected remaining range (or at least remaining battery capacity), but I can't find it. Help?
  
  
• The XPremium is supposed to be good for 28mph. Does anyone actually do that?? I've set up the max speed, but the gearing is too low to actually go that fast. In 7th gear, I don't think I can safely pedal almost 50% faster than I do at 20mph.
  
  
• The big one ... Do you feel like your PAS boost levels are evenly/appropriately spaced? I don't. I've been testing my speed at each level to see how they compare. I applied roughly equal crank effort at each level, all in 6th gear.
  PAS0 obviously does nothing.
  PAS1 feels exactly the same as PAS0. As far as I can tell, PAS1 doesn't do ANYthing. Light pedaling effort results in about 8-9mph.
  PAS2 applies a bit of boost, resulting in about 10mph. I'd say the pedaling effort is roughly comparable to riding an unpowered bike weighing half as much.
  PAS3 is a BIG jump. I have to work to keep up with it. Comfortable speed is about 15mph.
  PAS4 is a tiny step up from PAS3, about 16mph.
  
  So PAS1 appears to be non-functional, PAS2 is too slow for me, PAS3 is too fast for casual riding, PAS4 is barely faster than PAS3.
  
  I asked Lectric support if I could fine-tune the PAS levels, but no. Fixed values in the software. Are you seeing values like I am ??? I suspect I have a defective controller. They want me to prop the stand on a box so I can crank the bike by hand as fast as possible and see what max speed I can reach in PAS1. That's going to be a very unstable 2-man job, especially since the bike is heaviest in the rear.

Gary

 

[Johny Rocket]

Some questions for XPremium pilots:

• Does anybody use a suspension post on the XPremium seat? Or is it pointless, since the 4" fatties already soak up most of the bumps?
  
  
• I've heard the power bar is really inaccurate. I think I remember seeing a table that maps Voltage to actual expected remaining range (or at least remaining battery capacity), but I can't find it. Help?
  
  
• The XPremium is supposed to be good for 28mph. Does anyone actually do that?? I've set up the max speed, but the gearing is too low to actually go that fast. In 7th gear, I don't think I can safely pedal almost 50% faster than I do at 20mph.
  
  
• The big one ... Do you feel like your PAS boost levels are evenly/appropriately spaced? I don't. I've been testing my speed at each level to see how they compare. I applied roughly equal crank effort at each level, all in 6th gear.
  PAS0 obviously does nothing.
  PAS1 feels exactly the same as PAS0. As far as I can tell, PAS1 doesn't do ANYthing. Light pedaling effort results in about 8-9mph.
  PAS2 applies a bit of boost, resulting in about 10mph. I'd say the pedaling effort is roughly comparable to riding an unpowered bike weighing half as much.
  PAS3 is a BIG jump. I have to work to keep up with it. Comfortable speed is about 15mph.
  PAS4 is a tiny step up from PAS3, about 16mph.
  
  So PAS1 appears to be non-functional, PAS2 is too slow for me, PAS3 is too fast for casual riding, PAS4 is barely faster than PAS3.
  
  I asked Lectric support if I could fine-tune the PAS levels, but no. Fixed values in the software. Are you seeing values like I am ??? I suspect I have a defective controller. They want me to prop the stand on a box so I can crank the bike by hand as fast as possible and see what max speed I can reach in PAS1. That's going to be a very unstable 2-man job, especially since the bike is heaviest in the rear.

Gary

For transparency I own the XP 1.0 but am very familiar with the lineup. I have other bikes mid-drive, full size standard frames etc.

Same fat tires, similar frame & gears.

I've used suspension seatpost with the 4" tires. For me I vote meh, my wife has back issues and is a big fan of the suspension seatpost. I feel like there is too much of a front to back rocking motion that's annoying to me.
Range is very different depending on conditions and speed. Range killers include stop & go, uphill, wind speed, and bike speed above 14mph in zero wind conditions. You are far better off watching voltage as you ride. 100% is about 53.4v, 60% is about 50v, 30% is about 48v, 15% is about 46v and below 46v is considered reserve get home very slow if you're far and no worries if home is only 3-4miles. (Double if you have dual batteries). This is pretty close for most any ebike that I with 48v systems.
Almost everyone has ghost peddling at 28mph as at that speed you peddling is really just to keep legal class 3 compliance and even if your gears allowed you to assist it would not effect the the range much. If it feels too wierd you can change the freewheel (gears) to a 12-34. 12 tooth will help the ghost peddling and 34 will give you a granny gear to climb hills if you run out of battery and have to get home on your own.
Riding my mid drive bike, I use shifting to the correct gear more so than PAS level for better speed management and always down shift to climb hills or into the wind to prevent drive chain wear, tires etc. and better range.
PAS levels can only be changed if you replace the controller/display to one that allows user input. There are a number of YouTube videos and posts on this forum if you want to look into that.

 

[GaryInCO]

I agree with your comments on susp & 4". (Though the XP2.0 & 3.0 have 3" tires, not 4".) I imagine the suspension post would make the ride a bit cushier, but it's already pretty cush with the 4" fatties, and it doesn't have the rocking you mentioned.

The XPremium already has a 12-32, so a 12-34 wouldn't help the frantic 28mph pedaling. An 11- cassette would run 9.1% faster, which wouldn't make that much difference. Currently 20mph is about the fastest I push it, and the 11-tooth would only boost me up to 20*1.091 = 21.82mph. 28mph would still be above my comfort level for pedaling speed.

Yes, I also shift the mid-drive just like I would a regular bike. Though I don't shift quite as much to pick the perfect gear, because the motor is doing the hard work. I don't normally shift PAS at all, unless I head up a steep hill and bump it up to 4 or 5 for the extra oomph. Usually I leave it at 3. (Though this summer I'm doing a 150-mile 2-day ride, and I'll probably run it at PAS2 to make sure I have enough range.) I just wish 3 was a bit slower & 2 was a bit faster -- that big gap between PAS2 and PAS3 is where I'd like to be most of the time. And I wish PAS1 worked at ALL.

XPremium owners, do you see that big gap? Do you get any boost at PAS0?

 

[Johny Rocket]

I suspect you won't find a freewheel with 11 tooth anyway. Only way to fix the ghost peddling is to increase the size of the front chainring. Will likely need a longer chain. I got used to the PAS jump and actually ride PAS 2 then switch to PAS 3 at towards the end of the ride as the voltage drops. That's on the XP 1.0 with cadence instead of torque sensor the Xpremium has. None of my bikes have a torque sensor but I'm pretty close to putting one together soon. My go to Ebike is a flat handle bar gravel set up with a Bafang BBS02 750w mid-drive. The big 700c wheels with 38mm wide tires are way smoother than the little 20" wheels even with 4" fat tires that is on the Lectric. The bigger wheels just roll over most of the bumps instead of crashing into them. Rides less squirrely too. Kinda like the difference between a big luxury car vs a Smart car.

 

[GaryInCO]

Google for "11 freewheel" and you'll find lots of candidates.

I agree with the PAS2 comment, as I mentioned above. PAS2 is a lot more work, because of the big PAS2 -> PAS3 gap -- I'll get more range out of the bike, but I might run out of range in my legs!!

Yeah I'll bet the 700c's ride better. I didn't want the little 20" clown wheels, but my choices were limited if I needed 75mi range -- 100mi to have some spare. After I do this charity ride I'll have less need for so much range, and I may shift to a more traditional bike design.

 

[Dorkyman]

We have a couple of the XP2.0st bikes. First mod we made was to replace the stock 14-28 freewheel with 11-34. Huge improvement. I don't know if your bike uses the same chainring. Other issue is that I've read a mid-drive is tough on chain and sprockets, and the poor 11-tooth sprocket will wear out with so few teeth bearing the load of both motor and rider. But freewheels are $20 on Amazon, so other than a bit of labor now and then, who cares?

Our bikes came with the Lectric suspension seatpost, and every little bit helps! Adds another inch or so of cush.

We don't use PAS at all. We just treat the bikes as 7-speed bicycles that also have a 1 hp twist-throttle, just like on a scooter. Intuitive for us.

 

[GaryInCO]

Yeah you went from 14 to 11, that's a 27% increase. That WOULD be a big improvement (assuming higher gearing is what you want). But I already have a 12-tooth, so it would only be about 1/3 as much difference for me.

Mid-drives are known to be hard on chain & sprockets, because they keep pushing (hard) while you shift, unless you stop pedaling before each shift. But the XPremium has a shift detector. It automatically cuts out the drive before each shift. You can still be rough on the chain if you stop while in a high gear and then shift down. You'll start out still in the high gear and abuse the chain/sprocket while it switches to the lower gear. Like any normal unpowered bike, it's best to shift while spinning. Downshift while you're still rotating the crank so the bike shifts to the lower gear before you stop.

Yeah I basically don't use PAS either. Just set it at 2 or 3 and leave it. I usually only use the throttle to simplify starting out, especially if I want to start fast. Like crossing a street.

 

[MysterC]

I have about 130 miles on my XPremium. Mine came with the "Comfort" package (large seat and suspension post) but I'm over the weight limit (225?) of them so I replaced it with a cloud 9 seat and a stock suspension post. I also had to lock the front suspension for the same reason. I've lost almost 30lbs since I bought it so I've been loosening the front suspension but honestly I'm cool w/o it.

I have noticed a step between PAS 2 and PAS 3 but I wasn't sure if it was just me being generally out of shape or not. At PAS 2 I really feel it but PAS 3 I can go much faster but I still feel like I'm getting exercise. I average 17-19mph on relatively flat surfaces in 6th or 7th gear in PAS3. I've gotten up to about 25 on PAS 5 but it's a little scary and a lot of work.

I generally don't use the throttle unless I'm getting pooped out on a hill and don't want to have to stop and restart, but as I've gotten used to the bike, that situation is less and less.

I have noticed the power bar is a bit funky, it goes down several bars after a couple of miles but when you stop, it goes back up, but I've never felt like I was going to run out of charge while riding.

 

[GaryInCO]

I have noticed a step between PAS 2 and PAS 3 but I wasn't sure if it was just me being generally out of shape or not. At PAS 2 I really feel it but PAS 3 I can go much faster but I still feel like I'm getting exercise. I average 17-19mph on relatively flat surfaces in 6th or 7th gear in PAS3. I've gotten up to about 25 on PAS 5 but it's a little scary and a lot of work.

That sounds EXACTLY like me. At PAS2 7th gear I can't go much more than 11-12mph. I can push it really hard and get it a bit faster, but not for long. At sustainable work levels it drops right back down to 11-12. It feels like the bike quits assisting once it gets to that speed.

Frankly the bike is not fun to ride on PAS2. I feel like it's fighting me and holding me back, keeping me at a "putzing along" speed. It's like I'm dragging an anchor behind me. I'd probably be OK with it if I only wanted to go 10-11mph.

On PAS3 7th gear I can very easily hold 16-17mph on the flats. I breeze along on a magic carpet ride. Like with PAS2, I can push hard and go a bit faster, but not for long. PAS3 might feel sluggish too, if I was trying to hold 25mph, because that's above the PAS3 "stop assisting" speed. But since 18-20 is a comfortable speed for me, I don't push it past that, and the bike feels great at that speed. I haven't tried maxing it out on PAS5.

Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy! (Not on this specific point, anyway ...) Congrats on dropping the 30!

 

[BMXPremium]

Some questions for XPremium pilots:

• Does anybody use a suspension post on the XPremium seat? Or is it pointless, since the 4" fatties already soak up most of the bumps?
  
  
• I've heard the power bar is really inaccurate. I think I remember seeing a table that maps Voltage to actual expected remaining range (or at least remaining battery capacity), but I can't find it. Help?
  
  
• The XPremium is supposed to be good for 28mph. Does anyone actually do that?? I've set up the max speed, but the gearing is too low to actually go that fast. In 7th gear, I don't think I can safely pedal almost 50% faster than I do at 20mph.
  
  
• The big one ... Do you feel like your PAS boost levels are evenly/appropriately spaced? I don't. I've been testing my speed at each level to see how they compare. I applied roughly equal crank effort at each level, all in 6th gear.
  PAS0 obviously does nothing.
  PAS1 feels exactly the same as PAS0. As far as I can tell, PAS1 doesn't do ANYthing. Light pedaling effort results in about 8-9mph.
  PAS2 applies a bit of boost, resulting in about 10mph. I'd say the pedaling effort is roughly comparable to riding an unpowered bike weighing half as much.
  PAS3 is a BIG jump. I have to work to keep up with it. Comfortable speed is about 15mph.
  PAS4 is a tiny step up from PAS3, about 16mph.
  
  So PAS1 appears to be non-functional, PAS2 is too slow for me, PAS3 is too fast for casual riding, PAS4 is barely faster than PAS3.
  
  I asked Lectric support if I could fine-tune the PAS levels, but no. Fixed values in the software. Are you seeing values like I am ??? I suspect I have a defective controller. They want me to prop the stand on a box so I can crank the bike by hand as fast as possible and see what max speed I can reach in PAS1. That's going to be a very unstable 2-man job, especially since the bike is heaviest in the rear.

Gary

Lean it over on the kickstand to get the rear wheel off the ground

 

[BMXPremium]

I have about 130 miles on my XPremium. Mine came with the "Comfort" package (large seat and suspension post) but I'm over the weight limit (225?) of them so I replaced it with a cloud 9 seat and a stock suspension post. I also had to lock the front suspension for the same reason. I've lost almost 30lbs since I bought it so I've been loosening the front suspension but honestly I'm cool w/o it.

I have noticed a step between PAS 2 and PAS 3 but I wasn't sure if it was just me being generally out of shape or not. At PAS 2 I really feel it but PAS 3 I can go much faster but I still feel like I'm getting exercise. I average 17-19mph on relatively flat surfaces in 6th or 7th gear in PAS3. I've gotten up to about 25 on PAS 5 but it's a little scary and a lot of work.

I generally don't use the throttle unless I'm getting pooped out on a hill and don't want to have to stop and restart, but as I've gotten used to the bike, that situation is less and less.

I have noticed the power bar is a bit funky, it goes down several bars after a couple of miles but when you stop, it goes back up, but I've never felt like I was going to run out of charge while riding.

You know the suspension seat post has an adjustment screw on the bottom. Stick an allen wrench in there and screw it tighter for more compression

 

[BMXPremium]

You guys that feel like pas 1 is doing nothing switch your display to see current draw on pas1. I have 0 current draw on pas1 on both of our XPremiums. Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Emailed Lectric about it today. I will report back what the answer