2020 28mph e road bikes: Specialized Creo vs 2020 BH Core race 1.6 vs Trek Domane + HP vs Bulls Desert Eagle ?

Ebiker01

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Trek Domane + HP (Bosch powered/625wh pack) coming at end of January. No pics/Additional info yet.


bikerumor.com

BH Core e-bike line boasts narrow Q-factor, new app, 115km range!

BH announced the Core, a range of new e-bikes for road, gravel, or commuting. Using a special crankset with 163mm Q-factor, BH aims to satisfy those looking for an e-bike without a super wide pedaling stance. The 504 Wh battery is said to provide 115km worth of riding, and can hit an 80% charge...
bikerumor.com bikerumor.com


www.bhbikes.com

CORE RACE CARBON 1.6

www.bhbikes.com www.bhbikes.com

www.specialized.com

Made for riders, by riders. | Specialized.com

From seasoned pros and weekend warriors, to kids and commuters—if you ride, we’re for you. We believe bikes have the power to change lives. This simple truth drives us to be—and do—better.
www.specialized.com www.specialized.com

electricbikereview.com

BULLS DESERT FALCON EVO Review

Price: $6299 | Model Year: 2020, 2021, 2022 | A solidly built aluminum alloy road bike with carbon fiber for and seat post to dampen vibration, available in three frame sizes for optimal fit, large network of dealers in the US and Canada for fitting and post-purchase maintenance 28mph Class 3...
electricbikereview.com electricbikereview.com

- Much Smaller Q factor (therefore greater performance/efficiency of Bh’s Core 164mm vs 181mm for Specialized Creo

- BH 540wh vs ONLY 320wh for Creo

- BH is also 10x better with warranty(5 years) and excellent dealer support

- 1.95kg (Creo) vs 2.1kg(BH) motor weight

- very clean and novel app+ display( based on different collies) , have to memorize a range of about 10-20 colors to adjust the assist level.







www.bhbikes.com

CORE RACE CARBON 1.6

www.bhbikes.com www.bhbikes.com


Also most likely it will be in the price range of 3.5-4.5k vs. 6.5k for the cheapest Creo. Prices were not announced for the Bh(I’m just making an assumption b/c they are always fair with their pricing and not overly expensive).

Personally If I could would “only” buy all 4 of them.
Realistically any of those 4 are solid choices, maybe Bulls not that great with warranty/dealer support from what I’ve read.
 

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Captain Slow said:
When I go to the BH website it mentions the bike assists up to 25 km/hr
Click to expand...
As far as I can understand all high end road e-bikes disengage the motor as the assistance speed reaches the limit. Then the cyclist is on their own. The US version will probably be restricted at 20 mph. The concept is the assistance would mainly be used uphill.

Turbo Creo has a small battery and may have a range extender {there is an interesting post on it somewhere in the Forum). BH has a large battery that increases the bike weight.

The Creo battery can be transported by airplane in the cabin baggage while you cannot fly the BH battery. So many factors to consider.
 
Deacon Blues said:
I just went to BH's website and as far as I can tell they don't sell bikes in North Amercia. Is this true?
Click to expand...


They do. The 2020models are not on the US site yet.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

They were one of the first big brands to sell ebikes , since 2012, and since 1920’s regular bikes...
 
The Specialized warranty is life on the frame for the original owner and 2 years otherwise. How is that 1/10th the BH warranty?
The Creo is about 8-10 lbs. lighter and its frame geometry is perfect for gravel and road.
One can opt for a "Range Extender" which adds another 160wH so one has a choice in terms of battery use length.
Now, with the Aluminum Creo out, at $5K, it's closer to home for many (I own the Creo SL Comp Carbon).
Maybe some riders are bothered by the Q factor but I haven't heard of any that are, including myself. I don't even notice it.


Ebiker01 said:
Trek Domane + HP (Bosch powered/625wh pack) coming at end of January. No pics/Additional info yet.


bikerumor.com

BH Core e-bike line boasts narrow Q-factor, new app, 115km range!

BH announced the Core, a range of new e-bikes for road, gravel, or commuting. Using a special crankset with 163mm Q-factor, BH aims to satisfy those looking for an e-bike without a super wide pedaling stance. The 504 Wh battery is said to provide 115km worth of riding, and can hit an 80% charge...
bikerumor.com bikerumor.com


www.bhbikes.com

CORE RACE CARBON 1.6

www.bhbikes.com www.bhbikes.com

www.specialized.com

Made for riders, by riders. | Specialized.com

From seasoned pros and weekend warriors, to kids and commuters—if you ride, we’re for you. We believe bikes have the power to change lives. This simple truth drives us to be—and do—better.
www.specialized.com www.specialized.com

electricbikereview.com

BULLS DESERT FALCON EVO Review

Price: $6299 | Model Year: 2020, 2021, 2022 | A solidly built aluminum alloy road bike with carbon fiber for and seat post to dampen vibration, available in three frame sizes for optimal fit, large network of dealers in the US and Canada for fitting and post-purchase maintenance 28mph Class 3...
electricbikereview.com electricbikereview.com

- Much Smaller Q factor (therefore greater performance/efficiency of Bh’s Core 164mm vs 181mm for Specialized Creo

- BH 540wh vs ONLY 320wh for Creo

- BH is also 10x better with warranty(5 years) and excellent dealer support

- 1.95kg (Creo) vs 2.1kg(BH) motor weight

- very clean and novel app+ display( based on different collies) , have to memorize a range of about 10-20 colors to adjust the assist level.







www.bhbikes.com

CORE RACE CARBON 1.6

www.bhbikes.com www.bhbikes.com


Also most likely it will be in the price range of 3.5-4.5k vs. 6.5k for the cheapest Creo. Prices were not announced for the Bh(I’m just making an assumption b/c they are always fair with their pricing and not overly expensive).

Personally If I could would “only” buy all 4 of them.
Realistically any of those 4 are solid choices, maybe Bulls not that great with warranty/dealer support from what I’ve read.
Click to expand...
 
HLM said:
an opt for a "Range Extender" which adds another 160wH so one has a choice in terms of battery
Click to expand...

Yea the CREO is vastly inferior in terms of battery cappacity.
Plus can not remove it !! Unless you take the motor out.

- BH Core -540WH (not availabe yet in US)

-TREK +HP-500wh+500wh 2nd pack on downtube.

I would return a Creo and buy one of the above.

Trek launch the super powerful (and UK-illegal) Domane+ HP e-road bike, boasting a 28mph top speed and huge range

Unless you're prepared to import from the US and go through the confusing S-pedelec registration process this side of the pond, then you'll simply have to drool in envy at the new, more powerful version of Trek's Domane+. The HP and HP 7 versions of Trek's Bosch-powered e-road bike have a max...
ebiketips.road.cc ebiketips.road.cc
 

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Stefan Mikes said:
"I would return my Formula 1 bolid and buy a SUV".
@Ebiker01, please don't be silly. The Creo is just not for you.
Click to expand...

i do like it but with +HP can do a longer ride and can also charge much faster.

100mile , 6000ft of climbing ride in the summer ? Sure , np.

Not so much with Specialized.

With Trek, Can also leave the battery @home and ride it unassisted.
With Creo, gotta take the drill, take the motor out ...then access the battery ; nonsense, proprietary stuff .

Creo- 8.6amps- 2amp charge rate

+HP- 11.6amps- 4amp charge rate, is possible to do 6amps.

And next year, probably other one will be better, but for now Trek +HP has the crown of best road ebike .

I would like to see what @Court has to say about the Trek +HP, or compare both of them. Hopefully he will review it soon.
 
How many times have I to repeat the Creo is for able road cyclists and the key point is the weight and real road bike feel? You don't need to buy the Creo but you don't need to criticize it either @Ebiker01. The rush in the market towards the Creo clearly demonstrates how badly needed such a product was.
 
Did a short road test of the new trek domane+ hp yesterday. Seems like essentially the same bike as the 2019 domane+. Kiox display instead of purion and they added a kickstand but otherwise, same battery, same lights, same weight, same speed. I think they updated to the latest Bosch motor which may have more torque but I was surprised the weight was the same. 37.6 vs 37.8 lbs. I guess the new motor is smaller but not much lighter? Not sure why this bike should be compared to the creo when it’s nearly identical to the older 2019 model which didn’t warrant much comparison. Still, might buy it though. I preferred it to the Allant+ and it seems a lot easier to carry on the train than Trek’s other offerings. The bike felt heavier on the road than the specialized vado 5 I rode recently which surprised me. Fit and finish was great, felt very solid and well built. Bosch is Bosch and I just don’t like their motor feel. Even on the new gen motors it’s very abrupt and obvious when the motor kicks in. Feels like getting pushed from behind rather than being stronger in the saddle. Power and speed are great, hills are nothing. One important point for me is I need to be able to carry the bike with one hand while navigating public transport (train for work crisis days when I don’t get out till 11pm). It’s heavy at nearly 40 lbs but manageable even with one hand. Mostly though it’s barely an upgrade to last years model (available for 1k less now). I don’t think anything has been added that would make it more compelling if the 2019 Domane+ wasn’t already on your wishlist.
 
One more addition. As negative as my post above sounds I may actually buy the Dimane+ HP.

It might be the most well balanced bike out there for 2020 among the big bike retailers. It’s lightish at 38lbs but still has a decent battery (vs creo/giant). The light system is fully integrated and 1000 lumens vs 500 for Allant, <200 for specialized Vado and no integrated light at all for creo. It super solid and while I don’t care for the Bosch motor feel, it is powerful and certainly more proven than the specialized offerings. The battery system is also the most flexible and easy to remove with a generous handle and options for a range extender.

Any negativity is a sense that Trek has not improved any of their offerings in the last year. Still not convinced the Allant+ is better than the supercommuter in any way. It’s certainly worse in some regards.
 
darlingbastard said:
One more addition. As negative as my post above sounds I may actually buy the Dimane+ HP.

It might be the most well balanced bike out there for 2020 among the big bike retailers. It’s lightish at 38lbs but still has a decent battery (vs creo/giant). The light system is fully integrated and 1000 lumens vs 500 for Allant, <200 for specialized Vado and no integrated light at all for creo. It super solid and while I don’t care for the Bosch motor feel, it is powerful and certainly more proven than the specialized offerings. The battery system is also the most flexible and easy to remove with a generous handle and options for a range extender.

Any negativity is a sense that Trek has not improved any of their offerings in the last year. Still not convinced the Allant+ is better than the supercommuter in any way. It’s certainly worse in some regards.
Click to expand...



Did the 2019 Domane had the integrated lights ?
And i'm not sure, but last year model did not have the capability of a 2nd 500wh pack.

I totally agree with your above post, i feel that it is just the perfect ebike, good for everything.

It could be made lighter (33-34lb) with some carbon parts(crank, lighter pedals, etc..$

I wish that it could accept a 48t or 50t front ring.
With this virus going on, hopefully they will put it at a 50% off sale soon....
 
The drive train on the 2020 Domane+ is completely different than the older models. It uses standard chainrings instead of the tiny chainring on the older models. Someone mentioned that you can ride without the battery. This is true on the Allante, but not on the HP/HP7. The battery has the cover integrated. It would leave a gaping hole in the side of the downtube.

I did some extensive comparisons of Class III drop bar e-bikes, and decided to go with the Trek Domane HP7. It came down to it and the Creo. The specs on the Creo were better in terms of overall system weight, but I'm a pretty big guy and ride the largest frame. When you factor in the rider weight, the fenders, racks, bags, lights, etc... the total difference in weight was less than 5%.

The Creo battery is not removable. I have a long commute and have to lock my bike outside. I can't bring it in to charge. Being able to bring the battery inside to charge during the day was a must.

The Creo has Boost hub spacing. I swap wheels between bikes and was not going to deal with a proprietary wheel set, especially after experiencing the debacle that was the SCS rear spacing on the Diverge - what a nightmare.

The Creo uses a brand new (unproven) motor and battery. Having dealt with Specialized on warranty issues in the past, I did not want to be at ground zero for this system. The Trek uses Bosch motor and battery that has a proven design and is well supported with parts and support. The mechanics at the shop are familiar with it.

Lastly, I just couldn't make myself give that much money to a company I despise as much as I despise the evil "S".
 
@Flnx - Sounds like we are pretty similar. I'm also a pretty big guy and would be getting a 60 for the Trek HP vs. an XL for the Creo. I preferred the look, philosophy and feel of the Creo but the real-world practicality of the HP is hard to deny.

I can't charge the bike in my company's bike lockers so a removable battery is a big plus. My commute is 20 miles each way and with the Creo I would have to get the range extender, set it to drain that first, dip into no more than 50% of the main battery and recharge just the extender at the office. This would give me roughly 320wh for each leg of my commute which may not be enough for anything but the lower power settings. For the HP I'd have a full 500wh in each direction which could handle almost the entire distance in turbo for those days I want the extra assistance.

The integrated lights are also a huge draw. Lights are a safety issue especially when commuting and are not optional. I already charge my phone, watch and soon a bike. I'd hate to also add a front and back light to that routine. Pricing is identical after adding the range-extender to the Creo. Both would be 7k.

Real-world weight difference is not as much as you would think based on the reviews. The turbo creo comp carbon evo is 31.6 lbs + 2 lbs for the range extender. So 33.6 lbs vs. 37.7 lbs. = 5 lbs or 15% heavier. A pretty noticeable difference in terms of carrying the bike on the train but meaningless when riding (less than 2% of total weight).

I rode a normal Domane to check sizing and all of these e-bikes are still heavy as lead compared to any decent $4k road bike.

Lastly, a probably most importantly, my local Trek dealer is three blocks from my house with the nearest specialized dealer around three miles away.
 
The wheel hub spacing on the Creo is not proprietary. Boost hubs are quite common these days, even on Trek bikes.

Although many of the big brands went through a period of making some proprietary parts for the bikes, in general it seems they have gotten over it and stopped for the most part trying to re-invent the wheel (no pun intended). And I would not call a motor and battery that has been developed and tested for 4 years 'unproven'.

I would agree the Trek Domane HP7 is probably the better choice for your commuting and battery charging needs, and a very nice bike indeed. I do hope you have a solid place to store the bike at work, as even without a battery in it, it is still a very valuable bike to leave unattended.
 
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