tommybgood
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There are several bikes now with 20x3 or 20x4 wheels. how usable and stable are these bikes as daily drivers compared to standard 26 in. wheeled bikes?
20" x 3" Wheels: How Stable?
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AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
My opinion: I think they cost rolling resistance in exchange for ride and ease of climbing on and off. I suppose a lot of what they're costing you, with extra rolling resistance, will have to do with how far you're traveling? The further you go, the harder to justify the small fat tires.
kmccune
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Rather interesting, somehow the trike I just acquired has a 24x3 on what looks like a standard rim that would fit a 1.95, one thing this does with the rounded profile is greater support in the sand( this bike may very well acquire a 26x. 2.3 big Apple equipped powered front wheel and I am looking at KENDA 20x3.3 as replacements for the 20 x2.25 stock tires, beings the front fork arrived trashed, there may be a higher end suspension fork in the offing( really like the looks of this 'bike" can't wait to get it operable)
antboy
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My take: for more casual cruising, and errand running with a bike loaded up, these are great for stability and comfort, especially when run at lower PSI.
How usable they are depends on what kind of usage.
If a mountain bike is a bronco, and a gravel bike a stallion, a 20x4 fat tire is a mule. Even with a pair of fully loaded 30L panniers, it feels stable because of its lower centre of gravity compared to say a 29er with the same load.
m@Robertson
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Exactly. With a motor mixed into the platform, people in the West are using 'bikes' for utility purposes at levels they never have before. Fatter has all sorts of advantages in that use case vs. what was once considered a 'balloon' tire (2.1"+). You also have people enjoying cycling who have far less skin in the game (or interest in playing it) when it comes to being hard core about how you ride, and what you ride on. Comfort and stability under load (which includes the cheeseburgers the rider has eaten over the last month) trump light weight and nimble.
Shorter answer to the OP's question: Wider is more stable and 3" is still plenty wide even by modern casual ebike standards.
EDIT: Also: 20" gives you a torque advantage over 26". If you are looking at a hub motor and hilly streets it can mean the difference between scooting up on throttle ... or not. The Sondors 26" bikes are commonly upgraded to 35a controllers to enjoy strong acceleration. When Sondors came out with their juiced-up XS bikes that were meant to incorporate the things users were upgrading in the aftermarket, for the 20" Fold they had to reduce the controller power to 25a because any more than that created a wheelie machine. By the same token, a 20" bike vs. a 26" bike with the same battery and controller: The 20" will have faster acceleration (but its top end limit will be slower, assuming the motor reaches its rpm limit).
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Luto
Active Member
I rode some. I found them not as good for the following reasons:
- The extra torque makes it easy to slip the rear, and lose traction in turns.
- The lack of centrifugal force makes balance harder because the gyroscope effect is at a shorter "arm" or "lever" length
- Non standard replacement tires and tubes
- Felt like a Clown bike.
antboy
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Yep, it all depends on what the user wants out of a bike. The Mule™ has proven to be a dependable utility e-bike and fun in its own right, but for a more nimble and "pure" cycling experience, I have a Shimano mid-drive bike.
The mid-drive will also help you shed said cheeseburger load quicker.
tommybgood
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It looks like I'll just have to test and demo some bikes sooner rather than later and make up my mind!
I like the idea of a 26x4 fat bike as well but my understanding is that those bikes are pretty darn heavy.
I like the idea of a 26x4 fat bike as well but my understanding is that those bikes are pretty darn heavy.
mjeds
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I have a fat tire 26x4 that I use to commute, now up to 6,500 miles since Oct 2020. I have no issue.
original tires lasted 3,000 miles and were done, they were fat tire MTB tires, I replaced them with road tires 26x3.5" so far at 3,500 they still look brand new.
I expect to hit a least 10,000 miles by October 2021, that will be 1 year of cycle commuting. my commute is 52 miles round trip 4-5 days a week, plus I do another 60-100 miles on weekends for leisure.
I have had no issue, and frankly prefer the fatter tires due to the horrible roads in Los Angeles. if I was 100% bike path I would not want to use fat tires, but since most of my commute is through pot hole riddled crappy streets in L.A. the fat tire offers a better and more comfortable ride.
original tires lasted 3,000 miles and were done, they were fat tire MTB tires, I replaced them with road tires 26x3.5" so far at 3,500 they still look brand new.
I expect to hit a least 10,000 miles by October 2021, that will be 1 year of cycle commuting. my commute is 52 miles round trip 4-5 days a week, plus I do another 60-100 miles on weekends for leisure.
I have had no issue, and frankly prefer the fatter tires due to the horrible roads in Los Angeles. if I was 100% bike path I would not want to use fat tires, but since most of my commute is through pot hole riddled crappy streets in L.A. the fat tire offers a better and more comfortable ride.
rich c
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Pretty darn heavy, knobby fat tires sound like a military truck on pavement, and they are not very nimble as all that rolling mass has a gyroscopic effect and are slower to steer. I put 1,700 miles on one and then bought a full suspension e-mtb with 2.4" tires. I never rode the fat bike again.
tommybgood
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My main concern is that smaller wheeled bikes would feel very twitchy, too sensitive to input, but considering how many people are happily riding these bikes over fairly long distances as multi purpose bikes, perhaps some of my concerns were unfounded.
It's strange how a motor can erase so many of the problems of standard bike design so easily.
It's strange how a motor can erase so many of the problems of standard bike design so easily.
AHicks
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As I spend the majority of my time riding on pavement and/or hard pack, I found that I'm not a big fan of 26x4 tires either - even when I went with a street tread. Street tread actually introduced another problem - self steering! Expensive lesson for me. Now converting to 27.5 wheels, for 2.4"-2.8" wide tires.
m@Robertson
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That statement in a nutshell explains why fat tires exist anywhere but a snow-covered trail.
The curse of self-steering is tire-specific, psi-specific and sometimes even varies by the tpi count across the same tire model. You either have to wade thru tires yourself and find what works, or keep your ear to the ground.
The Origin8 Supercell is a semi-slick street tread that in its beastly 30 tpi casing, inflated to 15 psi is a great street roller. No self steering at all. Buy the same tire in 120 tpi and it self-steers no matter what (I have only bought the 30 tpi and am going off what others have said about the 120).
My Snowshoe XLs go from rolling disasters to perfect depending on the level of inflation. 12 psi is perfect if I'm taking the dirt shortcut. 15 if all pavement. As for nimble, it ain't but thats not the kind of bike it is. But its fine for a city street.
AHicks
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I found the issue sensitive to air pressure as well - ending up on the high side of 17psi. for best performance. My results though, were varying degrees of bad. Origin 8 Supercells like the ones in the link. Unfortunately I can't supply thread count info.
Amazon.com : Origin8 Supercell Wire Bead Fat Bike Tires, 26 x 4.0", Black/Black : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : Origin8 Supercell Wire Bead Fat Bike Tires, 26 x 4.0", Black/Black : Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
harryS
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The senior/RV/camper crowd sure seems to like the 20 x4" tires, especially with a step thru frame. They're all convinced it's more stable platform, but in my opinion, it's mostly the ease of dismount. I follow an "ebikers-over-60" facebook group, and many of those people have not ridden a bike in 30-40 years. A surprising number report how they fell down in the first week, post some pics of their bruises, and jump back on. They like the fresh air, They like riding but they don't need a workout. Very few appreciate using the shifter or the gearing, and quite a few ask if it's OK to leave it in top gear.
We have all the e-bikes with 20x1.75" tires, 20x4", 26" and 700cc skinny tires, and a 26x4" monster. A daily commuter with small tires needs suspension in my opinion. The 20" fat tire is not enough, unless you air them down, and then they suck all your battery and then they kill your legs when the power is gone. For pavement. I'll take the 26" and 20" with skinny tires. Just feels more like biking to me. I like my 26" fat tire for riding on the street because it's highly visible, so I use and like smooth treads.
We have all the e-bikes with 20x1.75" tires, 20x4", 26" and 700cc skinny tires, and a 26x4" monster. A daily commuter with small tires needs suspension in my opinion. The 20" fat tire is not enough, unless you air them down, and then they suck all your battery and then they kill your legs when the power is gone. For pavement. I'll take the 26" and 20" with skinny tires. Just feels more like biking to me. I like my 26" fat tire for riding on the street because it's highly visible, so I use and like smooth treads.
mjeds
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I have those, they are 120TPI unless you specially requested 30TPI when you ordered them, I got the 30TPI as stated 3,500 miles zero issues.
AHicks
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Which leaves me wanting to confirm - this was with use mostly on pavement?
mjeds
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90% of my commute is bike path and vehicle roads. 9 miles on bike path, 22 on vehicle roads.
the bike paths are a mix of asphalt, cement, gravel, and dirt.
AHicks
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I found the tires fine on anything but pavement. On pavement, any type of ridge or uneven pavement parallel to the path the bike was being ridden could cause the bike to have a mind of it's own as the tire approached or crossed it.
Funny the tire TPI could cause such varied results. It is what it is I guess.....
harryS
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Just to allay your worries, a 20" fat tire bike is not unstable unless you're like a 7 footer. I don't care for the heavy feel, compared to lighter bikes, but that's their nature, usualy over 60 pounds, and by the time you add a rack, mirror, and a lock, they're even heavier. Even heavier with shocks. I've never even tried to fold mine. Not going to have another sciatica flareup trying to lift it.
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