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This came up as a result of the new dual drive system only having a throttle to begin with and the future option to add PAS. Here's what a professional says about cadence (not from me). When pedals are turned slowly with lots of force, muscles tire quickly – not getting enough oxygen and blood...

But the programming has to make assumptions about how much assist is desired based on a sensor parameter that is not tied to rider effort in reality. I understand it can be done to provide a good assist sensation but I fail to see that this is even remotely as good as just giving the rider...

I do just fail to understand how a cadence only PAS system is a viable solution. Cadence speed as I see it has little correlation to what assist a rider might want. I know I quickly found out that I didn't like my ebike that just used cadence as an on/off switch for the 5 different levels of...

I'm wondering why all PAS don't include torque sensing if it's that low cost. Is there additional cost in the controller to accept the additional signal from the torque sensor.?

My thought is that only torque-sensing PAS provides the bike-like feel that people like about PAS systems. I have owned 2 x cadence-based assist ebikes and both seemed very flawed. One literally was just an on/off switch for assist to the level selected. Correct me if I'm wrong but a good...

Ditto.... He busts my chops frequently. Tells me I'm implying to deny choice when I suggest that having a base model with a throttle and having PAS as a purchase upgrade when the big brands don't even offer a throttle. I just scratch my head....

They'll just do multi-mode models that can go from non-compliant to compliant with the press of a button. Competitive forces will eventually push the big brand drive system producers to offer multi-mode as well.

Compliance of this ebike and others is not way off topic. The only reason the regulatory topic is not much hotter is because there is a total absence of enforcement. I would just prefer that the issues are addressed proactively.

You have never liked that I questioned People for Bikes 3-class legislation because you think it provide you trail access. This new drive system can be LSEB compliant and/or 3-class compliant via software and multi-mode so my guess is some will ride it on class 1 trails but who knows if they'll...

Are you arguing that I'm wrong that the only when separated can the motor and human power inputs be optimized? That's my opinion and it's obviously what Biktrix is saying as well. Let me guess, you think a 750W motor rating is the maximum power an ebike drive system can provide. Are you...

It's not wonky. It's actually very simple to determine what power level is needed on any ebike to sustain 20mph with a 170lb rider on a level surface and use that to govern the power when the ebike is going faster than 20mph. That is a lot more elegant solution than legislating the requirement...

No...you are mis-representing what I have written. I have simply stated from the start that I like the idea of the buyer being allowed to choose the assist technology they want on the ebike. Right now most of the big brand ebikes require the buyer to purchase the extra cost and complexity...

That's it ..... they don't need to be that complex. Programmers keep adding sensors to convince us they have a better PAS. We now have systems that incorporate: 1) Torque 2) cadence 3) speed 4) gear 5) incline 6) heart rate and I predict soon rider and cargo weight will be added. Who knows...

The assist issues arose out of those questioning the logic of this new mid-drive having throttle-assist only at first and later optional PAS. Clearly there are those that do not believe an ebike can have throttle-assist only because they equate that to be a motorcycle.

Sounds like a bike you could just ghost pedal in 1st gear given that assist level is only dependent on cadence. That is very much how my Izip Espress performs but it has a small generator at the crank that provides a variable voltage to the controller to substitute for throttle input to the...

No, every ebike does not have a PAS sensor as you just claimed. There are ebikes with throttle-assist only (no PAS sensors). I know there are ebikes with torque sensors which are obviously the more advance PAS as they vary the assist prioritized by the effort level of the rider. I understand...

A torque sensor is a PAS sensor and at least that signal is used as a variable control for assist and not just an on/off switch like a cadence only based system. I think one of the things that bothers me the most is that People for Bikes considers all PAS ebikes as being the same thing. Then...

The biggest brand (Bosch - who is really a much bigger car parts producer) wrote the legislation to keep ebikes recreational. Big brands want to sell the same neutered ebikes they sell in Europe here. That's one of the reason they provided $millions to People for Bikes to promote the nutty...

Wow. Given the average rider access to the assist programming. Most people don't know how to use a screw driver which is why Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, etc. would never consider this.

Is there a cadence-based PAS that is not just an on/off switch for assist per the mode setting like level 1 = 200W, Level 2 - 300W, etc. I have not ridden one that actually provides varied assist based on the crank RPM except for the Izip Express which actually used a small motor as a generator...