How many doctor visits have you had?

[MrClortho]

Once you crash, say 30 - 40 times, you learn how to crash and often don't get hurt as bad I am only averaging 2 crashes a year now.
I haven't broken a bone in about 10 years, but before that was both arms, ribs, vertebra, fingers, wrist, elbow....

 

[PCeBiker]

Once you crash, say 30 - 40 times, you learn how to crash and often don't get hurt as bad

I agree 100%
And it's not a conscious learning event.
It becomes instinct that just takes over.

I got so practiced at crashing head first that I actually turn my head to the side before impact so I don't smash my face.

My eyes pinch shut hard and my head turns sideways in a microsecond.

I actually haven't pulled off that trick in over 20 years now, but I'm sure that my "muscle memory" still remembers what to do.
Adrenaline can do some magical things.

I remember talking to a freind that crashed his bike and was airborne for 10-20 feet.
He said it felt like he had five minutes to decide how he was going to land.


I remember when I got my first ebike a few years ago, I cracked my shins Hard on the pedals almost a dozen times in the first month or so, but I haven't hit my shins since then.

I have no idea what I'm doing differently, but my shins are fine now.

 

[dodgeman]

I was riding on very loose gravel and just about wrecked, I threw the bike down and stumbled around like a drunk but never fell down. I’m getting to old to wreck.

 

[jack sprat]

Landing on the street on your chin is a parent's nightmare.

 

[jack sprat]

I was riding on very loose gravel and just about wrecked, I threw the bike down and stumbled around like a drunk but never fell down. I’m getting to old to wreck.

Whenever I wreck my heavy ebike is always on top of me, and I end up with some sort of injury. I'm OK riding on the street. It's when I go off-road that I get in trouble. I'm 78 years old and don't have any sense.

 

[PCeBiker]

I'm 78 years old and don't have any sense.

You'll be fine on your new ebike, and so will your senses.

Riding a 119 pound ebike has more to do with brute strength than reflexes.

I thought that I was bad at ~100 pounds, but I've got a full air suspension to help with control.

 

[Catalyzt]

This is one of many reasons I prefer lighter bikes.

One night, I was riding angry because my buddy was having a psychotic episode and his sister was being unhelpful and there was nothing any of us could do. It was well after sunset, just a little light in the sky, and I took on a dirt trail that was well over 20% -- how far over? Do I know? Could I see? Hell, no. The trail was covered in leaves.

More than halfway up, I realized I wasn't going to make it-- I only had 40nm of torque, the bike's motor was an E5000, but I don't even think more power would have helped, the wheels would just have spun. (I do know a local guy who can get up that hill on an acoustic mtb.) Anyway, I tried to stop and dismount. However, the traction was so bad that even with the brakes locked up, I was still skidding backwards, and I realized, "This is bad. I have no control whatsoever."

First, I tried my usual controlled fall on the side-- I've only had to do it a few times, but it worked before. Not on that hill. Then, I tried to throw away the bike and just leap clear, but I couldn't, the front wheel was already lifting off the ground, and fell flat on my back, and the bike landed on top of me.

Fortunately, I was wearing body armor because I am on blood thinners-- cheap Chinese body armor, but still-- and I was riding a 47 pound Motobecane. I felt like I could hear the bike muttering, "You idiot." But I was completely uninjured, and the bike did not have a scratch on it. (I broke the bell, which was made out of pot metal.)

Look, you can have a wreck on any bike. I've hit taxicabs an a 24-pound 1970s racing bike and wound up on the trunk, and also flipped it drafting my buddy at 35 MPH on a hill in Wisconsin. I've had three-speeds ripped out from under me by thieves and landed on my back, and my colleague's husband, who was in his early 40s, crashed on a Canyon Spectral and gave up the sport entirely. I've been lucky so far.

<< if the bike leans to one side, I crash . The weight of the bike took me down, and I was injured every time >>

I think you know exactly what the problem is. I hope the Nomad is better, but that is still 80 pounds, though there are a lot of variables. On the trail, one of the hardest things is going slow over rock gardens-- and I say that as someone who never does anything harder than intermediate trails. There's one trail near my house with a few brief intermediate segments, and I recently did it on the 36 pound Canyon Grizl: ON. It was much harder despite having 50% more power than the Motobecane, but 47 pounds is still reasonably easy to handle. I've also hit spots on the trail where I had to straddle the bar and lift the bike to turn it around 180 degrees because it was too narrow and the trail just turned into... something completely outside my ability. 47 pounds I can lift. Even 60 would be too much for me at this point.

I still think it is much more dangerous to ride eMotos that are that heavy, particularly once we are north of 65 and if we haven't taken a motorcycle course (maybe you have.) The seat seems like it is non-adjustable, which as you observed is part of the problem.

As my new orthopedist says, "Hey, sure, you can ski, you can bodyboard, you can ride your eMTB. Do whatever you want. Just don't crash. Very high consequence."

 

[PCeBiker]

I used to crash all the time and was always running on adrenaline.

I have no need for speed anymore, and use adrenaline as a warning to smarten up instead.

I won't listen to music while I ride, because I don't want to get charged up by some song and start getting reckless.

I need to be an emotionless rider, or bad things will happen.

 

[indianajo]

I have had stitches on my chin 3 times and in 2017 I broke the jawbone. Did not hurt much. Having teeth wired shut for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Newyears was worse. I tried to buy a bike helmet with chin guard before the 2017 accident, but did not know the secret code. Kept getting ventless motorcycle helmets football and baseball helmets from google & bing. The secret code is "downhill mountain bike racing helmet". I never race.
Those 1961 stitches left a red zipper on my chin for 30 years. They have learned to stitch your skin a lot better since. The 2017 scar was gone in 2 years.
I quit losing skin when I crashed when I started wearing dickies long sleeve long pants with polyester gloves. Nothing else hurts much.
The bike never lands on me. I go over the handlebars and land on my chin every time. Except in 1966, when the pickup left turned in front of me as I was going 25 mph. (rare in no-wind flat Houston). I sailed over the pickup bed and got pavement rash on my hands. The bike went under and was bent by the wheels.

 

[PCeBiker]

I was riding on very loose gravel and just about wrecked, I threw the bike down and stumbled around like a drunk but never fell down. I’m getting to old to wreck.

I did that same trick last summer on a forest trail.
I was only going a few miles an hour but I dumped the bike and hit the ground running.
I Almost did a face plant, but managed to outrun it in 10-15 feet.

I've never really "crashed" my ebikes, but I've dumped them dozens of times.

I used to go over the bars on purpose for fun.
I'd hammer the front brake, jump over the handlebars hit the ground running, and let my mountain bike smash upside-down behind me.

That was lots of fun, but I can't do that trick anymore, partly because I'm too old now, and partly because I don't want to smash my ebike.

 

[jack sprat]

This is one of many reasons I prefer lighter bikes.

One night, I was riding angry because my buddy was having a psychotic episode and his sister was being unhelpful and there was nothing any of us could do. It was well after sunset, just a little light in the sky, and I took on a dirt trail that was well over 20% -- how far over? Do I know? Could I see? Hell, no. The trail was covered in leaves.

More than halfway up, I realized I wasn't going to make it-- I only had 40nm of torque, the bike's motor was an E5000, but I don't even think more power would have helped, the wheels would just have spun. (I do know a local guy who can get up that hill on an acoustic mtb.) Anyway, I tried to stop and dismount. However, the traction was so bad that even with the brakes locked up, I was still skidding backwards, and I realized, "This is bad. I have no control whatsoever."

First, I tried my usual controlled fall on the side-- I've only had to do it a few times, but it worked before. Not on that hill. Then, I tried to throw away the bike and just leap clear, but I couldn't, the front wheel was already lifting off the ground, and fell flat on my back, and the bike landed on top of me.

Fortunately, I was wearing body armor because I am on blood thinners-- cheap Chinese body armor, but still-- and I was riding a 47 pound Motobecane. I felt like I could hear the bike muttering, "You idiot." But I was completely uninjured, and the bike did not have a scratch on it. (I broke the bell, which was made out of pot metal.)

Look, you can have a wreck on any bike. I've hit taxicabs an a 24-pound 1970s racing bike and wound up on the trunk, and also flipped it drafting my buddy at 35 MPH on a hill in Wisconsin. I've had three-speeds ripped out from under me by thieves and landed on my back, and my colleague's husband, who was in his early 40s, crashed on a Canyon Spectral and gave up the sport entirely. I've been lucky so far.

<< if the bike leans to one side, I crash . The weight of the bike took me down, and I was injured every time >>

I think you know exactly what the problem is. I hope the Nomad is better, but that is still 80 pounds, though there are a lot of variables. On the trail, one of the hardest things is going slow over rock gardens-- and I say that as someone who never does anything harder than intermediate trails. There's one trail near my house with a few brief intermediate segments, and I recently did it on the 36 pound Canyon Grizl: ON. It was much harder despite having 50% more power than the Motobecane, but 47 pounds is still reasonably easy to handle. I've also hit spots on the trail where I had to straddle the bar and lift the bike to turn it around 180 degrees because it was too narrow and the trail just turned into... something completely outside my ability. 47 pounds I can lift. Even 60 would be too much for me at this point.

I still think it is much more dangerous to ride eMotos that are that heavy, particularly once we are north of 65 and if we haven't taken a motorcycle course (maybe you have.) The seat seems like it is non-adjustable, which as you observed is part of the problem.

As my new orthopedist says, "Hey, sure, you can ski, you can bodyboard, you can ride your eMTB. Do whatever you want. Just don't crash. Very high consequence."

You have writing talent. Thanks for the reply.

 

[jack sprat]

I have had stitches on my chin 3 times and in 2017 I broke the jawbone. Did not hurt much. Having teeth wired shut for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Newyears was worse. I tried to buy a bike helmet with chin guard before the 2017 accident, but did not know the secret code. Kept getting ventless motorcycle helmets football and baseball helmets from google & bing. The secret code is "downhill mountain bike racing helmet". I never race.
Those 1961 stitches left a red zipper on my chin for 30 years. They have learned to stitch your skin a lot better since. The 2017 scar was gone in 2 years.
I quit losing skin when I crashed when I started wearing dickies long sleeve long pants with polyester gloves. Nothing else hurts much.
The bike never lands on me. I go over the handlebars and land on my chin every time. Except in 1966, when the pickup left turned in front of me as I was going 25 mph. (rare in no-wind flat Houston). I sailed over the pickup bed and got pavement rash on my hands. The bike went under and was bent by the wheels.

Your parents probably wondered why they got the crazy kid

 

[jack sprat]

I did that same trick last summer on a forest trail.
I was only going a few miles an hour but I dumped the bike and hit the ground running.
I Almost did a face plant, but managed to outrun it in 10-15 feet.

I've never really "crashed" my ebikes, but I've dumped them dozens of times.

I used to go over the bars on purpose for fun.
I'd hammer the front brake, jump over the handlebars hit the ground running, and let my mountain bike smash upside-down behind me.

That was lots of fun, but I can't do that trick anymore, partly because I'm too old now, and partly because I don't want to smash my ebike.

Thanks for the idea. I'm going to try doing that over the handlebars move.

 

[MrClortho]

Here is some "crash" advice from a former motorcycle enduro and motocross rider and MTB'er.

When you know you are crashing, evaluate the situation and look for objects you don't want to hit (poles, trees, stumps, rocks) and direct your fall away from those. This may sound impossible, but it really isn't because once you know you are going down, time slows down and you often get an opportunity to direct your path. Get away from the bike if you can. Do not use your arms to break your fall...you will break your arms or wrists. Try and go as limp as you can and roll your body into the fall with a gentle tumble. This will expend most of the energy of the crash and as long as you don't hit something or try and stop your roll with arms, you will probably come out of a slow speed crash as well as you can expect.

 

[PCeBiker]

When you know you are crashing, evaluate the situation and look for objects you don't want to hit (poles, trees, stumps, rocks) and direct your fall away from those.

I remember that from the motorcycle training class I took about 40 years ago.

Don't look at the obstacle that you don't want to hit, or you'll naturally steer right into it.
Look where you want to go instead.

If there's a huge empty field with only one tree in the field, chances are that you'll hit the tree.

The only problem with that is that you have to practice to make sure you do the right things while crashing, so you have to crash to get good at it, and make it an instinct.

It's a painful learning curve.

 

[jack sprat]

Here is some "crash" advice from a former motorcycle enduro and motocross rider and MTB'er.

When you know you are crashing, evaluate the situation and look for objects you don't want to hit (poles, trees, stumps, rocks) and direct your fall away from those. This may sound impossible, but it really isn't because once you know you are going down, time slows down and you often get an opportunity to direct your path. Get away from the bike if you can. Do not use your arms to break your fall...you will break your arms or wrists. Try and go as limp as you can and roll your body into the fall with a gentle tumble. This will expend most of the energy of the crash and as long as you don't hit something or try and stop your roll with arms, you will probably come out of a slow speed crash as well as you can expect.

Good advice. Thanks

 

[jack sprat]

I remember that from the motorcycle training class I took about 40 years ago.

Don't look at the obstacle that you don't want to hit, or you'll naturally steer right into it.
Look where you want to go instead.

If there's a huge empty field with only one tree in the field, chances are that you'll hit the tree.

The only problem with that is that you have to practice to make sure you do the right things while crashing, so you have to crash to get good at it, and make it an instinct.

It's a painful learning curve.

You have been blessed with good insight.

 

[PCeBiker]

You have been blessed with good insight.

Insight helps by knowing what you're supposed to do, but it's the hindsight that shows you if you actually did what you're supposed to do.

The weird part is doing the right thing but not knowing how you did it.
Reflexes are automatic and almost completely out of our control.

 

[jack sprat]

Once you crash, say 30 - 40 times, you learn how to crash and often don't get hurt as bad I am only averaging 2 crashes a year now.
I haven't broken a bone in about 10 years, but before that was both arms, ribs, vertebra, fingers, wrist, elbow....

Evel Knievel would be proud of you. Seriously, guys like you are tough and just keep going.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Another one who thinks it's better to learn how to crash... then it is to learn how not to crash.... smh.....