stompandgo's Pinarello Nytro E5 Allroad build thread

[Stefan Mikes]

I know you're expecting Jeremy, but I stopped by to make sure you're safe -- here you are posting while under attack.

Still all fine...

 

[stompandgo]

Wow, that 9-45 cassette looks really nice and about 100g lighter than the 11speed XT.

Does TQ support the Auto Shift or the Free Shift features that Shimano lists with the 8260? That would certainly add to the argument for the long cage hardwired one.

I'm not sure. The 8260 connects through the TQ Smartbox and Shimano CAN adapter. I saw no configuration options in the service tool other than turning e-shift on. The hardware and motor interface is there, it would be up to software/firmware. Once things calm down, I'll call US TQ (QBP) and ask. Great question. I can't see myself using auto shift but definitely free shift.

 

[stompandgo]

I apologise for my ignorance: I've always thought the long cage derailleur was meant to accommodate a huge cassette with a big teeth capacity. In what sense the long cage derailleur cannot be used with a smaller cassette?

I cannot fail noticing your Nytro has a pretty long stem: Isn't is a design option to provide proper Reach?


I know Jeremy you don't expect the answer from me but from Chris As the Nytro Allroad is based on the Grevil (gravel) frame and has gravel bike tyres, it is just an "equipped" flat handlebar gravel e-bike (you can ride a gravel bike on almost anything except mountain technical singletracks).

The long cage derailleur can be used, but shifting could be compromised. Also, the 9-45 cassette is marked twice on the Shimano compatibility chart as "not for E-Bike". I don't know why. The last thing I want to do is get Di2 and have it not shift like Di2. I'll see if I can ask Shimano why the restriction exists.

The stem length is more gravel oriented than MTB.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Unless it's just my internet acting up (always possibility) I don't think the photos of your lovely bike have transferred over.

...but I'm hoping that the range will be long enough to minimize riding with the assist off.

Is this because of a health issue? If not, riding a 30lbs bike unassisted is very different then riding your older 62lbs bike unassisted. The Pinarello should ride beautifully on the flat at that weight unassisted, enabling your range to be a lot further, saving battery for hills, headwinds and that last weary few miles home.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

...but I'm hoping that the range will be long enough to minimize riding with the assist off.

Is this because of a health issue? If not, riding a 30lbs bike unassisted is very different then riding your older 62lbs bike unassisted. The Pinarello should ride beautifully on the flat at that weight unassisted, enabling your range to be a lot further, saving battery for hills, headwinds and that last weary few miles home.

I'll second that. I often do rolling coast rides averaging 12 mph and ~30 ft/mi of climbing with my 38 lb Vado SL 1 in OFF.

Typical ramp-and-flat Coast Highway topography with elevation gains of 60-100 ft each time up. Not quite as steep as it looks in this telephoto shot.

But I have the time and the 22-99 gear-inch drivetrain to do it. Adding assist just adds speed and fun. Also typically ups workout intensity via the Carrot Effect.

Safe bet that @stompandgo is a stronger rider than I am.

 

[stompandgo]

You live on the bleeding edge, you die on the bleeding edge. Well, not exactly die, you just don't get to ride when you want to.

Some of the upgrades for the Pinarello.

Shimano WH-RX880 32mm carbon gravel wheels
Shimano CS-M8200-12 12 speed 9-45 cassette and TL-021 lockring tool
Shimano M8250 wireless Di2 upgrade kit (the switch is on the bars}

The wheels were in the shop, take-offs with the HG Spline 2 12 speed HG freehub on them. The boss ordered me the Microspline freehub that's needed for the M8200 cassette. It's not a difficult swap, although everything has to be done just right. I did the swap the first time and it looked and spun fine. When I put the cassette on, though, the freehub was binding. I tried it in the frame, and it was worse. I then removed the freehub and reinstalled it two more times, just in case. Same result. So I called Shimano dealer support. In less than a minute, the problem was identified.

These wheels have cup and cone bearings with press-on end caps. The problem is that the end cap is interfering with the 9T cog. Shimano has a redesigned end cap for these wheels in the design stage, but it will be a few weeks before they are available. I've got one with my name on it coming ASAP.

So it seems, like in any other business, the various departments aren't talking to each other. The cassette group designed this great cassette specifically for enduro MTB's that care about weight and clearance. They had a tool designed for it as well. The derailleur group saw the opportunity to create a mid cage derailleur in order to optimize shifting and clearance. Somehow, the wheels group did not get invited to the party. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

Meanwhile, I've been mounting up the 45mm Gravel King tires and Tupolito TPU tubes, and the Zipp rotors from the OEM Shimano RS wheels. I've got the cockpit set up loosely, and will be working on the brakes next. I've figured out a way to mount my Varia to the end of the rack. I picked up a carbon Cane Creek eeSilk suspension seatpost during their 40% off sale. I'll start riding it with the ISM that's on the Cannondale.

 

[BlackHand]

Glad you're getting it sorted out. Do you think the incompatibility is just from the HG 2 > microspline conversion or would RX880 wheels that ship as microspline also have issues?

Seems like a pretty big oversight, though I guess GRX has always been sort of the red haired step child of the road and mtb lineups.

 

[stompandgo]

The Shimano tech said that it is this wheel and cassette combination that has the issue, not the conversion. We shall see.

I didn't want to go GRX because of no Di2. Shimano should have made my upgrade kit and cassette GRX Di2. Another marketing vertical for the same product.

What Shimano should do is make Microspline the standard across road, MTB, and gravel going forward. It's a superior freehub design than anything else they have.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

The Shimano tech said that it is this wheel and cassette combination that has the issue, not the conversion. We shall see.

I didn't want to go GRX because of no Di2. Shimano should have made my upgrade kit and cassette GRX Di2. Another marketing vertical for the same product.

What Shimano should do is make Microspline the standard across road, MTB, and gravel going forward. It's a superior freehub design than anything else they have.

Bike techology's gotten so cool in the last 20 years. I envy your up-close first-hand experience with it.

 

[stompandgo]

Bike techology's gotten so cool in the last 20 years. I envy your up-close first-hand experience with it.

It has, but it's lost its beauty.

You should hang around your friend's shop for a bit.

 

[stompandgo]

Shimano sent me the updated end cap for the WH-RX880-700-12 wheels that work with the Deore XT 9-45 cassette. It works! Finally! This was the missing link to getting this bike upgraded. For reference, the specific end cap part number is Y0SJ98040. I'm off tomorrow, so I get to dive into E-Tube and go at it. We have a few PCE-02 diagnostic dongles at the shop in case Cyclist can't do something I need to do. The Boss is fine with me stopping by to use it.

 

[Chazmo]

That’s slick, Chris!

Sorry if you already posted it and I’ve forgotten (but pictures from the first page aren’t showing up anyway)… I think you said Di2 is a future for this bike? So, what shifting mechanism are you using for this Deore XT derailleur, and what does the shifting mechanism look like? Is it just a thumb/trigger switch? Electronic (no cables), right?

 

[stompandgo]

I had two choices for Deore XT Di2 12 speed mountain (gravel uses drop bar levers): 8250 or 8260. 8250 is wireless, while 8260 can be wired into the bike battery(ies) via the Shimano CAN adapter and the TQ Smartbox. I already have the Smartbox, which runs the lighting from the bike battery. The advantage of the 8260 is that any e-bike Di2 shifting mode can be added. They have a couple of modes that are not available on any other Di2 system. The 8250 is wireless, and can be programmed using E-Tube. The two things that swayed me towards the 8250 are a) a cleaner installation and b) the ability to use the Deore XT 9-45 cassette which requires a special 8250 mid-cage rear derailleur. Both systems use the wireless Deore XT SW-8250-12 handlebar switch.

A view of the money side. The bike comes with SKS fenders and rear rack. I added a Topeak Omni adapter for my trunk bag. The wheels are Shimano WH-RX880-700-12 Microspline gravel wheels with Panaracer Gravel King X1 Plus gravel tires, which are supposed to be pretty fast. The seatpost is a Cane Creek EeSilk II carbon.

The stock 38T chainring, the TQ HPR50 drive unit, and my Crank Brothers Candy 11 Ti pedals.

The business end. You can see how small that 9T sprocket is.

The cockpit view. The derailleur switch is on the right. The TQ remote is on the left. It can change assist modes as well as cycle through the screens on the display. I am waiting for the new TQ V04 color display to arrive in the US, which should be soon. That's my Garmin 840 on the stem, with the ANT+ LEV data in one of my ride screens. The mirror is a Hafny stainless foldable.

The coming-at-you view. You can see why I can't change the bars, because the brake hoses are routed inside. The TQ remote is wired, and I'll do a better job of routing it along the brake hose. This will get me going. My first ride with this setup will be Friday.

 

[stompandgo]

I took a ride last week, the first ride after the upgrades were done, my third ride in total. In short, this is what I was looking for in an e-bike, I just didn't know it.

I went for one of my popular rides, about 35 miles round trip. I spent about 25% with the assist off, a couple of blasts at level 2, and the rest at level 1. The wind was 5-10mph steady, and my pace was about 18mph average. I got a few double takes from road riders who saw the "P" on the head tube but flat bars.

The first thing I noticed was how quiet the bike was. The TQ HPR50 is almost silent at assist level 1. I only hear it faintly when starting out from a stop. The Microspline freehub is high engagement, but also very quiet. The Gravel King X1 tires are noisier than pure road tires, but not by much, and they feel pretty fast. They are 45's, but they measure 50mm on the wide 25mm rims. The Di2 shifting, my first flat bar Di2 setup, was great. I have the second switch position set up for 2 cogs (the choices are 2,3, or hold for the whole cassette). This really helps on the trail, as this ride, one of the shorter ones, has a total of about 40 stops. Downshifting while maintaining a steady cadence is simple. It's like driving a manual shift car and skipping gears. In the 10th cog (13T) and with the 38T chainring, I'm going 25mph at 98rpm, with two gears left. Cogs 6-12 are two teeth apart, which is very similar to my race bikes of the past. It's a great setup.

Overall, the ride of the bike is very similar to a carbon road bike. It is nimble and quick, responding to input without much effort. On the other hand, it feels very stable. I sat up and rode it no-hands for a bit and it was like it was riding by itself on autopilot. I've never owned a gravel road bike, but if this is how they ride, I can understand their popularity. I don't feel the weight at all, but I'm also not climbing mountains. I can see myself riding it in a combination of off and level 1 for my rides around here. If I do that, I'll get about 65 miles on the main battery, and around 90 miles with the range extender. That's what I was looking for in any e-bike. I was also surprised how easily it handled soft surfaces such as loose hardpack and sand. It's not a fattie that's able to blast through anything, but I felt a lot more confident riding on sand than in the past. I think it's the stability of the frame design and the wider tires (the originals were 40mm).

I didn't think I'd be a good fit for a Large frame size, but in this upright style of bike, it is. I still want to dial it all in a bit, but it's close enough at this point to be fun to ride. The weather is getting colder here, but my time is finally starting to free up, so I'll be taking some midweek longer rides out to the National seashore.

 

[Chazmo]

Sounds like a total win, Chris. Congrats!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I was also surprised how easily it handled soft surfaces such as loose hardpack and sand. It's not a fattie that's able to blast through anything, but I felt a lot more confident riding on sand than in the past.

How soft the sand?

The 38 mm hybrids on my Vado SL are fine on damp packed low-tide sand. Very little sinkage. Start getting a little squirrely once the sand's maybe halfway dry but still pretty well packed.

The 2.3" hybrids on my commuter do better, but not by as much as you might think — which leaves me even more impressed with the 38s.

Both are totally no-go on deep, dry loose sand and loose cobble.

 

[stompandgo]

Loose, dry, deep sand. I powered my way through it. The 55's on the Cannondale kept digging in, but the lighter Pinarello with narrower tires did better.

 

[Base]

btw, in Europe the standard for e-bike frontlights is like this

you ,ight have dialed in the frontlight after the photo's... how it looks at this moment, you would be blinding truck drivers

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Jeremy, the technique of riding in loose sand looks like this (at least in my case):

• TURBO mode on
• A very low gear
• Assume a possibly most upright riding position
• Touch the handlebars very delicately just to steer the bike but your weight must be off the bars
• If descending, ride through the sand at the full speed. It is a scary experience but it works!

It works unless the terrain is just a sand desert

 

[stompandgo]

I was in level 1 assist, a fairly low gear, sitting back on the saddle. I wasn't going very far, though.